Ego/I/self/Ahamkara is the Self that thinks he/she is separate from oneness....

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Of course I exist .
If one didn't believe that I exist, one wouldn't be arguing that I don't lol .
One uses the dream analogy to fit their agenda ....

Exactly, There is no realisation had that the I is dreamy or not real. Saying I am is dreamy or not real is not and can not be a realization/experienced, thus is subjective, and is irrelevent and does not matter one tiny itty bitty bit.

Yes, only a dream/illusion can only create another dream and illusion on to infinity. It is all in their minds subjectively. I do see where these people are coming from though and it is a hard habit to break and to be free from, as I have already been there and done that.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

That's your ego at play.
Dreams are the unconscious communicating with the unconscious and are different states of consciousness. People often use them as agenda when their egos feel the need, or they want to dissociate themselves from themselves....

Is the ego an illusion, not real or does not exist?

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Is the ego an illusion, not real or does not exist?

It depends on how you define illusion and real. One of the ways Jung described the ego is "A sense of I am" and "The centre of the field of consciousness." Your, mine and everybody's sense of I am is the end product of so many unconscious processes. Since you mentioned it earlier your cognitive behaviour - constructive or destructive - and your cognitive dissonance or what is sometimes called the 'lock on, lock out principle - affect that sense of I am.

To you, you have reality so it's up to you to decide if 'you' is an illusion or real.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Sometimes nursery rhymes have hidden meanings that convey wisdom that can be quite profound when they're no dismissed.

Nothing of the dream can be anything more than that .
The wisest sage in all the land is not wise at all . There is no sage . There is no wisdom . There is no world .
Peeps seem to try and maintain the dream premise but side step it when they want to be right about something .

Originally Posted by Greenslade

know of three, one of them being a mod.

You cannot have a realisation that the world or the self is a dream .
You cannot because the dream is a reference of dualness in such a way where there requires a comparison for what is not a dream .
You can't just have a dream reality because in order for a dream to be acknowledged it requires awareness of it's opposite .

There is no awareness of a world, or an experience of self that is not a dream .
When peeps start talking about the waking state is a dream then there is no comparison for that . There is no realisation of that .
I have asked peeps what their comparison is many times, and no answers are ever given because there is no like for like comparison .
The dream world or the dream self is a conclusion made . It's not a realisation

Originally Posted by Greenslade

ego IS I am.

Well self is I AM also .. when it's definition is ''The self is an individual person as the object of its own reflective consciousness.''

You divide up the ego from self and yet the ego is I AM ..

It's no good saying the ego speaks or the ego expresses and not the self when you could say I am speaks and I am expresses .
This is why I have said the ego is a self expression because the self is individualised (consciousness) and just like the sun is the self, the sun can emit rays .
The ego doesn't exist unto itself, this is why saying I AM is the ego doesn't work because I am exists unto itself .
If the ego is I AM there is no need to speak of the ego that is divided from self .
x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Is the ego an illusion, not real or does not exist?

These are the important questions because we have to work with the foundation that's presented .

If the foundation is just a dream then any content that's of it is simply that .
You cannot have real love, or the truth of the universe or self when the foundation doesn't support it .
You can get peeps that believe that their masters are correct and what they say is true and yet uphold their beliefs in that the world is dreamy or their perhaps isn't anyone really here at all .
So why are they believing someone who isn't really here that is just imagined or dream't up
Makes no actual sense . It's contradictory . It's not lived . It doesn't even reflect the premise at times declared to be true .

x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Exactly, There is no realisation had that the I is dreamy or not real. Saying I am is dreamy or not real is not and can not be a realization/experienced, thus is subjective, and is irrelevent and does not matter one tiny itty bitty bit..

What seems to happen is that there is an awareness of self beyond the physical waking world . There are lots of experiences to be had, like Greens experience of outer body awareness, like my cosmic experience and beyond the self and mind .

Peeps then think that what they conclude is realised when it's a conclusion .

This is why there can be similar experiences had and yet the opposite conclusions are made from it .

It has to be subjective otherwise everyone would say the same thing .

Some think the self hood is illusory and that is Self realisation, some might say that the self hood and everything is real and that is Self realisation .

It can depend on what experience one has in reflection of what their beliefs are at the time ..

The most consistent conclusion made by those that have experienced expanded self awareness or beyond self awareness is the union of all things .

That's as basic as it gets .

Originally Posted by MikeS80

, only a dream/illusion can only create another dream and illusion on to infinity. It is all in their minds subjectively. I do see where these people are coming from though and it is a hard habit to break and to be free from, as I have already been there and done that.

It's all about one's foundational beliefs and they can be hard to break . Something has to happen in order for one to see through their previous way of perceiving and understanding ..


x daz x

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

It depends on how you define illusion and real. One of the ways Jung described the ego is "A sense of I am" and "The centre of the field of consciousness." Your, mine and everybody's sense of I am is the end product of so many unconscious processes. Since you mentioned it earlier your cognitive behaviour - constructive or destructive - and your cognitive dissonance or what is sometimes called the 'lock on, lock out principle - affect that sense of I am.

To you, you have reality so it's up to you to decide if 'you' is an illusion or real.

That is the problem. one person may define real and illusion different from another person, and it makes it hard to know what people are talking about because of it.

Unconscious/subconscious programing/conditioning that causes destructive or negative thoughts and cognitive behaviour affects the sense of I AM, it does not create the sense of I AM.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

What seems to happen is that there is an awareness of self beyond the physical waking world . There are lots of experiences to be had, like Greens experience of outer body awareness, like my cosmic experience and beyond the self and mind .
Peeps then think that what they conclude is realised when it's a conclusion .
This is why there can be similar experiences had and yet the opposite conclusions are made from it .

The awareness of self beyond the physical waking world should not matter to someone who believes that the self/sense of I AM is an illusion or dream, and believes in oneness/non-duality. Because the awareness of self/I AM beyond the physical waking world will also be an illusion or dream.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

That is the problem. one person may define real and illusion different from another person, and it makes it hard to know what people are talking about because of it.

Unconscious/subconscious programing/conditioning that causes destructive or negative thoughts and cognitive behaviour affects the sense of I AM, it does not create the sense of I AM.

What people define as real or not tends to be more dissociative than anything else, and that is programming. What I said was that cognitive behaviour and cognitive dissonance were two of the aspects and the 'main players', but there are others. Including thinking you have surpassed your programming.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The awareness of self beyond the physical waking world should not matter to someone who believes that the self/sense of I AM is an illusion or dream, and believes in oneness/non-duality. Because the awareness of self/I AM beyond the physical waking world will also be an illusion or dream.

That can be the case for sure but I dare say that some may suggest the experience of beyond the physical as not being a dream .

I think there are many notions had that are wrapped up as a realisation .

Personally I feel that the comparison of self and no self is required to know I am, otherwise all one is really experiencing is another self reflection .

It is the hall of duality mirrors giving a reflection of self in a variety of shapes and forms and non physical forms .

But you're right in that if self or I AM awareness is all based upon ego or a dream or an illusion then it matters not what one experiences at all for none of it is a true reflection of what you are fundamentally .

What peeps do however is proclaim to having a realisation but then behaves as if the world isn't a dream and the people in it are not just illusory dream characters and they grieve just the same when a dream character passes over .

If a peep truly has realised something, you can never live in a way that doesn't reflect that realisation unless one becomes mentally unstable and lives in denial.


x daz x