Ego/I/self/Ahamkara is the Self that thinks he/she is separate from oneness....

[MikeS80]

.....while the Self/true Self/Atma or Atman is the Self whom knows and is aware he/she is not separate from oneness.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

.....while the Self/true Self/Atma or Atman is the Self whom knows and is aware he/she is not separate from oneness.

I'm honestly wondering, this isn't to argue against your beliefs.

If there were "oneness", then how could anything be separate?

How could a part of "oneness" perceive itself to be separate? That means, at least, that that part's awareness isn't part of the "oneness", doesn't it? So it would negate the concept of "oneness".

I assume you mean "oneness" as in "everything is one", and not as in this oneness, that oneness, the oneness over there, ...

If you affirm that there is an ego, and there is a true-Self, then you don't have "oneness" anymore, because you talk about two different entities, don't you?

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

.....while the Self/true Self/Atma or Atman is the Self whom knows and is aware he/she is not separate from oneness.

Indeed its very true . Cosmic Self also wants to play . We are sure in a play always there are more than one parties . Cosmic Self which is one and only one , can not have fun of play by itself .So Cosmic Self creates beautiful illusion called Maya/Life so that it can have fun and excitement of a play which Cosmic Self can not have alone by Himself. So when it's tired / fatigued /exhausted from play and wants have rest/blissful existence , it may withdraw and become one . Every sentient being getting deep refreshing sleep is part of that Self withdrawing from play for a rest.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I'm honestly wondering, this isn't to argue against your beliefs.

If there were "oneness", then how could anything be separate?

How could a part of "oneness" perceive itself to be separate? That means, at least, that that part's awareness isn't part of the "oneness", doesn't it? So it would negate the concept of "oneness".

I assume you mean "oneness" as in "everything is one", and not as in this oneness, that oneness, the oneness over there, ...

If you affirm that there is an ego, and there is a true-Self, then you don't have "oneness" anymore, because you talk about two different entities, don't you?

You missed my point of self and Self are one and the same. The only difference is a peson's True Self's perception/awareness. The true Self only exists, the separation itself is the ego, and the separating that the ego does is an illusion.

You think I said there is an ego, and there is a true Self. I said the ego is the Self-meaning the true Self thinks it is separate/does not know it is not separate from oneness/the eternal and infinite right here and right now.

The ego, which is the true-Self thinks he/she is separate is also oneness/the eternal and infinite right here and right now.

Consciousness and awareness are an individual but not separate "things". There would be no point for us (our (true) Self) to be conscious and aware, if oneness/the eternal and infinite right here and right now was or is already conscious and aware of itself.

We humans and other animals and plants are conscious and aware, so oneness/the eternal and infinite right here and right now is conscious and aware of itself physically existing/living inside itself.

Many non-dualitists spiritual people mistakingly believe that the non-duality concept is about the physical is against the non-physical ( it's the same old judgment/belief of good vs evil/positive vs negative, wearing a different mask), when in actuality the physical exists in the non-physical, which makes the physical and the non-physical existences, the one and the same.

[FallingLeaves]

if you want to talk about 'differences' then you want to talk about 'duality'. What is the point in that?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

You missed my point of self and Self are one and the same.
...

Sorry. I shouldn't have asked.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

.....while the Self/true Self/Atma or Atman is the Self whom knows and is aware he/she is not separate from oneness.

It's kind of a loaded question isn't it Mikey Mike .

If we say like I do often that there is only what you are .. then only what you are knows and is aware that they are not separate from oneness -

The problemo is that many like to divide everything up into neat boxes and tick them all. So we have self in one box, the ego in another etc etc .

Of the mind there is awareness of a self that can ask such questions and give relative answers .

So in context this mindful self is whom that knows .

What this mindful self is, is each to their own, but it's kinda futile to say it's consciousness or anything else that isn't realised as such .

All we can do is be aware of ourselves of this experience . Beyond the experience there is self awareness also, but there wouldn't be the thought of such a question in regards to whom am I that knows .

So there has to be context .


x daz x

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

if you want to talk about 'differences' then you want to talk about 'duality'. What is the point in that?

Learning about and getting to know and understand' the differences' of oneness is a tool to use to know and understand ourselves, which leads us to learn about and get to know oneness/the eternal and infinite right here and right now. 'differences' are oneness's individual Selfs, whom are individuals but not separate or whom are oneness individuals.

If one does not talk about duality (separation) in a non-duality thread on a spiritual forum, how will one learn and know what duality ( separation) is?

Most people are too busy thinking about what is good/bad, positive/negative and about what benefits them personally (including ignoring and dismissing "duality", the 'differences' etc, ignoring and dismissing them is not accepting them for what they are and is not being conscious and aware of them) , when they should be conscious and aware of the thoughts and beliefs of separation that have, and replace those beliefs and thus thoughts with beliefs of oneness.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

It's kind of a loaded question isn't it Mikey Mike .

If we say like I do often that there is only what you are .. then only what you are knows and is aware that they are not separate from oneness -

The problemo is that many like to divide everything up into neat boxes and tick them all. So we have self in one box, the ego in another etc etc .

Of the mind there is awareness of a self that can ask such questions and give relative answers .

So in context this mindful self is whom that knows .

What this mindful self is, is each to their own, but it's kinda futile to say it's consciousness or anything else that isn't realised as such .

All we can do is be aware of ourselves of this experience . Beyond the experience there is self awareness also, but there wouldn't be the thought of such a question in regards to whom am I that knows .

So there has to be context .


x daz x

Yep, I hear ya!

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Learning about and getting to know and understand' the differences' of oneness is a tool to use to know and understand ourselves, which leads us to learn about and get to know oneness/the eternal and infinite right here and right now. 'differences' are oneness's individual Selfs, whom are individuals but not separate or whom are oneness individuals.

If one does not talk about duality (separation) in a non-duality thread on a spiritual forum, how will one learn and know what duality ( separation) is?

Most people are too busy thinking about what is good/bad, positive/negative and about what benefits them personally (including ignoring and dismissing "duality", the 'differences' etc, ignoring and dismissing them is not accepting them for what they are and is not being conscious and aware of them) , when they should be conscious and aware of the thoughts and beliefs of separation that have, and replace those beliefs and thus thoughts with beliefs of oneness.

Ego sometimes likes to tell people it is God. If you could think or understand your way to enlightenment it wouldn't be the real thing.