Can I still eat fish and be a vegetarian?

[annabelle239]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Or... "those pesky - tarians"

Meanwhile... do Clams have a face? Or Oysters, or Scallops? So, it can get down to splitting hairs, seems.

Nevertheless...

i have no idea what scallops are. my passion is farm animals. comparing farm animals to plants is outrageous. nevertheless you should follow what you feel is right. and,i don't think any healthy person could visit a factory farm and be ok with eating meat ever again. now,beyond factory farming,if you kill a fish yourself and feel ok eating,that is you.i couldn't but that is me. it's about waking up and seeing what is and not making excuses.

[Morpheus]

Scallops, Clams, and Mussels too, anna. All shellfish.


Anna, you're a sensitive and caring person, but the situation is about our perception of what "Life" is. Compared to the Truth.

In the wild, savagery takes place every day and all the time. My own Cat left the legs and fur of an an animal in the garage recently. Squirrel or Bunny? Couldn't tell.
What else occurred that night? That day?

I've lost a poodle from our yard, I believe to one of the many Coyotes which roam here.
Meanwhile again, what is the true nature of Life?
Is it merely the material manifestation in the physical world? This is about Truth, and objectivity. Apart from ego and the survival instinct.

What is the nature of this "Construct" in which we find ourselves?

This is relevant... Time and space and gravity are all interrelated.
The below about time, also, is something we see repeated in the many NDE accounts, available for reading, by those who've died and returned to share

"We review the idea, due to Einstein, Eddington, Hoyle and Ballard, that time is a subjective label, whose primary purpose is to order events, perhaps in a higher-dimensional universe. In this approach, all moments in time exist simultaneously, but they are ordered to create the illusion of an unfolding experience by some physical mechanism. This, in the language of relativity, may be connected to a hypersurface in a world that extends beyond spacetime.
Death in such a scenario may be merely a phase change."

Paul S. Wesson, Dept. of Physics and Astronomy, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
Subjects: General Physics (physics.gen-ph); General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology (gr-qc)
Cite as: arXiv:0905.0119v1 [physics.gen-ph]

Einstein had stated that in this new understanding of Physics there is no room for both the "Field" and matter. That, "the Field is the only reality."

Parhamensa Yogananda ~ Author of, "Autobiography of a Yogi"...
"Death is only an experience in which you are meant to learn a great lesson. You cannot die."

You can ignore the recent research conclusions on Plant Life, if you choose, but it nevertheless exists. It is thorough, and valid.
The underlying situation of everything in the material world is Consciousness, and Light.
This includes Plants also.

[annabelle239]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Scallops, Clams, and Mussels too, anna. All shellfish.


Anna, you're a sensitive and caring person, but the situation is about our perception of what "Life" is. Compared to the Truth.

In the wild, savagery takes place every day and all the time. My own Cat left the legs and fur of an an animal in the garage recently. Squirrel or Bunny? Couldn't tell.
What else occurred that night? That day?

I've lost a poodle from our yard, I believe to one of the many Coyotes which roam here.
Meanwhile again, what is the true nature of Life?
Is it merely the material manifestation in the physical world? This is about Truth, and objectivity. Apart from ego and the survival instinct.

What is the nature of this "Construct" in which we find ourselves?

This is relevant... Time and space and gravity are all interrelated.
The below about time, also, is something we see repeated in the many NDE accounts, available for reading, by those who've died and returned to share

"We review the idea, due to Einstein, Eddington, Hoyle and Ballard, that time is a subjective label, whose primary purpose is to order events, perhaps in a higher-dimensional universe. In this approach, all moments in time exist simultaneously, but they are ordered to create the illusion of an unfolding experience by some physical mechanism. This, in the language of relativity, may be connected to a hypersurface in a world that extends beyond spacetime.
Death in such a scenario may be merely a phase change."

Paul S. Wesson, Dept. of Physics and Astronomy, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
Subjects: General Physics (physics.gen-ph); General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology (gr-qc)
Cite as: arXiv:0905.0119v1 [physics.gen-ph]

Einstein had stated that in this new understanding of Physics there is no room for both the "Field" and matter. That, "the Field is the only reality."

Parhamensa Yogananda ~ Author of, "Autobiography of a Yogi"...
"Death is only an experience in which you are meant to learn a great lesson. You cannot die."

You can ignore the recent research conclusions on Plant Life, if you choose, but it nevertheless exists. It is thorough, and valid.
The underlying situation of everything in the material world is Consciousness, and Light.
This includes Plants also.

cats don't know any better. humans do. also,i still think factory farming is far,far crueler then a cat playing with a mouse and killing it. cats are certaintly vicious creatures,yet also spiritual. we can learn a lot from cats. nevertheless,a cat would never invent a factory farm. or work on one methodically. cats have their lessons they need to learn and their soul path. humans have ours.i really do believe all the cruelty to animals exists as the ultimate walking back to home(love.). We are meant to coexist with nature and other beings yet we don't just dominate it,we completely disrespect it. This isn't just the occasional mistake we make either. We are here to learn after all. I think someday this planet will be vegan and we will have to live with we have done. Just like sexism and racism,etc,etc. Except animals,who are often much more purer then us,seem to be the last thing,which is a shame. We disrespect animals so entirely much. It's one thing to not understand animals and to make mistakes. It's another to know better,yet keep being cruel. No one,and i mean no one needs to eat animals to be healthy. So,everytime you do,you are choosing an animals sadistic suffering for your appetite. One day,we will look back on eating animals as barbaric and crazy. Until then,i believe there is a special,special place for animals for this intense lesson they are giving us humans on the walk back to love. I grew up with a meat eating family,but somewhere along the line as a pre-teen girl something struck me as why do we have to eat meat and how cruel it was. i never did like meat much and thought about becoming vegetarian and then i did. maybe i'm more special then i think. i became vegetarian really young with parents who told me i couldn't at first,but i did it anyways. I didn't wait until college or even high school. I'd just make my sandwiches with just cheese and mayannoise and was quite content with it. I don't intend to ever have kids but if i ever did,i'd without a doubt raise them vegetarian at the least. At this point,if i were to adopt a cat,i don't think i'd make them a vegetarian cat. lol. i don't think they'd be too happy about that. however,i would maybe look into different meat options. if everyone gave up meat,and all the cats in the world still ate it,i mean come on,factory farming wouldn't need to exist just to produce cat food.

This is how the majority of sensitive, gentle farm animals around the world are treated. They are severely confined in metal cages in factory prisons. They experience a life of immense suffering.
If you would like to make a difference and be their voice, please go to the 'Make it Possible' campaign, watch the short animation and share it! United together for a good cause we can make a kinder earth possible :)
http://www.makeitpossible.com/

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by annabelle239

cats don't know any better. humans do. also,i still think factory farming is far,far crueler then a cat playing with a mouse and killing it. cats are certaintly vicious creatures,yet also spiritual. we can learn a lot from cats. nevertheless,a cat would never invent a factory farm. or work on one methodically. cats have their lessons they need to learn and their soul path. humans have ours.i really do believe all the cruelty to animals exists as the ultimate walking back to home(love.). We are meant to coexist with nature and other beings yet we don't just dominate it,we completely disrespect it. This isn't just the occasional mistake we make either. We are here to learn after all. I think someday this planet will be vegan and we will have to live with we have done. Just like sexism and racism,etc,etc. Except animals,who are often much more purer then us,seem to be the last thing,which is a shame. We disrespect animals so entirely much. It's one thing to not understand animals and to make mistakes. It's another to know better,yet keep being cruel. No one,and i mean no one needs to eat animals to be healthy. So,everytime you do,you are choosing an animals sadistic suffering for your appetite. One day,we will look back on eating animals as barbaric and crazy. Until then,i believe there is a special,special place for animals for this intense lesson they are giving us humans on the walk back to love. I grew up with a meat eating family,but somewhere along the line as a pre-teen girl something struck me as why do we have to eat meat and how cruel it was. i never did like meat much and thought about becoming vegetarian and then i did. maybe i'm more special then i think. i became vegetarian really young with parents who told me i couldn't at first,but i did it anyways. I didn't wait until college or even high school. I'd just make my sandwiches with just cheese and mayannoise and was quite content with it. I don't intend to ever have kids but if i ever did,i'd without a doubt raise them vegetarian at the least. At this point,if i were to adopt a cat,i don't think i'd make them a vegetarian cat. lol. i don't think they'd be too happy about that. however,i would maybe look into different meat options. if everyone gave up meat,and all the cats in the world still ate it,i mean come on,factory farming wouldn't need to exist just to produce cat food.

You make good points anna.

Human nature is such though, that while it is deemed fine to farm cattle and sheep and the like, we find it, in the more developed countries anyway, appalling to think about dogs, cats, and apes also being caged and farmed.

Originally Posted by annabelle239

i still think factory farming is far,far crueler then a cat playing with a mouse and killing it. cats are certaintly vicious creatures,yet also spiritual.

Hi annabelle239,

I think the really important point you're making here is about how out of balance we are with the natural world. Our farming of animals is not only unnatural, it's also destroying the planet. The Amazon is being destroyed at a very rapid rate to make more and more room for livestock farming. The Amazon is a massive source of clean air and atmospheric cleansing for our planet (not even from a spiritual perspective but from a hard science perspective!), and we're taking that away from ourselves and every other living creature here. Cats and other animals are still (at least more so) in balance than we are. One of the main reasons I choose to limit my meat intake is for this reason of imbalance that we are creating in how we raise and manufacture animals intended for consumption. There is also the reality that I would have an emotionally difficult time killing and preparing an animal for my own consumption. I'm sure if I had to do that I could, but if I absolutely had to for survival I would assume I would be in a situation that would be more in balance with the natural world.

On the other hand, I do agree with an argument I have heard that plants are also living beings that vegetarians/vegans kill for their consumption (for those of you that believe plants have spirits, that point begins to make sense rapidly). My response to this, for now, is that farming and manufacturing a plant-based diet is more cost-effective and less environmentally damaging than meat production.

Originally Posted by deyheaven1979

I just prefer to eat shrimp, clams, fish instead of chicken, pigs or cow. I think they suffer less in the killing process.

Unless I am a shrimp, clam, or fish I do not know how much they suffer when killed. If I am not a plant, I do not know how much a plant suffers when it is killed.

[mogenblue]

I don't want to cause a fuzz or anything but I have read some things about the emotional and spiritual life of plants and trees. They do have a soul and they too have an evolution to follow.

I have learned that they are meant to be consumed and that they are very well aware of that. They don't feel pain in the way that we do, or experience it in the same way, I'm not sure of that. But they do have emotions. So your behaviour towards them does have an impact on them. They appreciate love just as much as we do.

They know they are supposed to be eaten because the other moving creatures would not be able to evolve without them.
That is how it has been going on for millions and millions of years. Should that be wrong all of a sudden when we reach a certain level of consciousness at this point in time?

Originally Posted by mogenblue

I don't want to cause a fuzz or anything but I have read some things about the emotional and spiritual life of plants and trees. They do have a soul and they too have an evolution to follow.

I have learned that they are meant to be consumed and that they are very well aware of that. They don't feel pain in the way that we do, or experience it in the same way, I'm not sure of that. But they do have emotions. So your behaviour towards them does have an impact on them. They appreciate love just as much as we do.

They know they are supposed to be eaten because the other moving creatures would not be able to evolve without them.
That is how it has been going on for millions and millions of years. Should that be wrong all of a sudden when we reach a certain level of consciousness at this point in time?

What you say makes a lot of sense to me.

[Heaven]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Unless I am a shrimp, clam, or fish I do not know how much they suffer when killed. If I am not a plant, I do not know how much a plant suffers when it is killed.

I have thought about it, I think mammals suffer more in the killing process than any other species on earth. That's why I don't want to eat meat. I don't think a clams or plants have the capacity or intelligence to ponder why am going to eat it, or why someone took it out of their living environment or what's going to happen to the clam after that. If I poke a clam, I'm not going to hear the clam scream (help!!) lol I'm joking please don't get offended. In general we really don't know. But I do know Clams are very healthy for your body.