The Problem of Human Suffering.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

oooohhh...kinky

I think it's only kinky when the other person is tied up, come on.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Gem

That game has been going on since I used the knitting needle baby example, and I can tell you right now, all that you've made up about me only serves your part in a charade.

Oh, it's been going on between you and me a lot longer than that, Gem, one way and another.

We do all play our parts on this world stage. I prefer to play for genuine helping and healing, believe it or not. What do you play for?


Xan

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

It's very touching, eh? Was it the heart being twisted disconnecting it from veins ----that must have been the part...

I have many more images of pain from relationships, btw, many having to do with
burning, searing, and other modern mechanical cutting instruments.

I think it takes, not so much the absence of suffering, but to stare it in the face, because it surely is searing and tearing, there's no point denying that, and there are things that'll tear your heart right out of your chest while laughing right in your face. Do you pretend it doesn't hurt? Roll over and die? Pretend some buddhist nonsence answers this?

Your own life tells the story, it's not a fairy tale, it isn't holy texts, it isn't silly gurus that chunder rose petals all over themselves. It's real life.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Xan

Oh, it's been going on between you and me a lot longer than that, Gem, one way and another.

We do all play our parts on this world stage. I prefer to play for genuine helping and healing, believe it or not. What do you play for?


Xan

It's very simple. I can't be used as a prop to validate your self image as spiritual healer and teacher. You adopt that role, but I'm not playing minion.

To furthur clarify it, I noticed your recent encounter with sound where you read into whatever it was she said something like self hatred, and although she later apologized, initially she was taken a back, and I clearly understood, as I am consistantly subject to the same kind of wan judgements.

I am not playing sick ignorant puppy in pain in this role play.

That's what's going on between us so long.

That I just said is sincerity. There is a difference.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Gem

I am not playing sick ignorant puppy in pain in this role play.

That's what's going on between us so long.

That I just said is sincerity. There is a difference.

So Gem... You think someone offering caring means they think you're a sick ignorant puppy? I don't see you that way. Just as someone well defended against being vulnerable. It's a common phenomenon in our world and adds to our collective and individual suffering.


Xan

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Xan

So Gem... You think someone offering caring means they think you're a sick ignorant puppy? I don't see you that way. Just as someone well defended against being vulnerable. It's a common phenomenon in our world and adds to our collective and individual suffering.


Xan

In this thread you told me something about focusing on the compassionate side, but you perpetually seek something wrong with everyone, and if you look back in this thread you'll see how anything I say, mere observations, examples of pain cruelty... or any response... you then turn to judgement and make assertions about my nature. If I were to do the same you'd say I see a reflection of myself, and even in your post above I get the sense you are trying to tell me I am defending my vunerabilities, and if were to play this game I would say it's your mirrored projection... and do so under the pretence that I am compassionate and caring, but the whole notion is such a pile of waffles.

[Xan]

You think I am always seeing something wrong with everyone? It's hard for me to grasp how you could perceive me that way. I saw in you some unconscious pain expressed in your preoccupation with extreme suffering, and I still do, but it's not a judgment against you.

But Gem... this conversation has become more personal than is appropriate here, I think. You're welcome to pm me if you want to continue it.


Xan

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Xan

You think I am always seeing something wrong with everyone? It's hard for me to grasp how you could perceive me that way. I saw in you some unconscious pain expressed in your preoccupation with extreme suffering, and I still do, but it's not a judgment against you.

But Gem... this conversation has become more personal than is appropriate here, I think. You're welcome to pm me if you want to continue it.


Xan

I realized you see unconscious pain, (but I only say what is easily observed in the world) and if I would say such a thing to someone you would see my unconscious pain mirrored, but by that way os seeing it is only your unconscious pain that you actually see, but there is where I don't play that game... which is what I first said.

[Gem]

The truth is I just look at this thing, the very nature of it, the actual depths of the thing and to understand, and I don't want to skim the surface of a comfortable pool which can be answered by buddhist colloquializms or cozy one liners, which sound very nice, but would sound silly in a torture chamber. Really all this **** like my 'preoccupation' is a ridiculous assertion, and it was never about me, I have no preoccupation with these things, only the eyes that are not averted from the dire extremes of cruelty and torment.

I don't know if there is a solution to it, but a little kindness does go a long way, and I'm trying to say I'm a kind person, nor am I infactuated with kindness, certainly I'm not trying to project how kind and compassionate I am. Why would I speak of complete purity and love in one thread and then abject depravity in the next? It's seen to be in this world.

[7luminaries]

The problem as I see it is compartmentalised individuality. And yes I'd agree it is fear that makes us withdraw into ourselves and avoid including others in our concept of self or of "like self", where we would extend to them the same treatment we'd like for ourselves...the same love, compassion, acceptance, even just tolerance and basic decency.

Fear makes us withdraw and dehumanise one another...to the point that torture of another sentient...or even another living thing...in any form, (emotional/mental/physical) becomes possible.

And physical forms aren't the only forms of torture. There are many "soft" forms of torture than are just as cruel and the scars can go much deeper. Interrogators are well aware that often it is the "soft" torture than breaks the spirit.

And yet physical torture is such a worthy parallel for the cruelty and damage we do to each other without physical weapons and implements. Free of any recrimination except our own consciences, assuming they are still functional and can themselves be healed enough to feel empathy, compassion, and remorse.

Peace,
7L