Do All Insects Go To Heaven?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Eastern version of reincarnation: an entity can return as a human or might regress backwards and become an animal or possibly an insect.

That fly you swatted, might HAVE BEEN your mean Grandmother!

That is one Eastern version. Many in the East would consider that having attained human birth then we cannot be reborn in the animal/insect world. This makes rather more sense.

Peace.

[Jyotir]

Hi Big John,

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Eastern version of reincarnation: an entity can return as a human or might regress backwards and become an animal or possibly an insect.

That fly you swatted, might HAVE BEEN your mean Grandmother!

I hope you can cite which specific legitimate teachings or traditions hold that to be true, vs. popular folk beliefs; "village" beliefs, common misconceptions from other cultures, etc., that are simply for the most part - not true.

According to what I have seen and understand, regressive reincarnations for human beings - meaning, regressing back to the animal kingdom - are actually relatively rare, and would occur mainly in within the very first of a soul's human incarnations when the desires and propensities of animal life are so overwhelmingly strong, that the soul may occasionally allow this regression in order to satisfy or complete more fully the animal phase.

Further, even if this regression does occur, it would still be within and subject to the general progression or hierarchies within animal life, meaning a regressive incarnation for a human being back into animal, would likely mean becoming a more advanced animal, such as more intelligent and feeling mammal - not insect (although allowing for any exception).

Otherwise the very nature - and law - of human life is to evolve out of the animal life, and progress into a divine life.

~ J

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by iamthat

That is one Eastern version. Many in the East would consider that having attained human birth then we cannot be reborn in the animal/insect world. This makes rather more sense.

Peace.

In the West, reincarnation for humans generally means you will only come back as a human.

In the West, reincarnation for animals generally means you can only come back as an animal. In the West, animals can not reincarnate as humans.

In the East, this is not true. For example, Buddha was once a monkey.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Big John,



I hope you can cite which specific legitimate teachings or traditions hold that to be true, vs. popular folk beliefs; "village" beliefs, common misconceptions from other cultures, etc., that are simply for the most part - not true.

According to what I have seen and understand, regressive reincarnations for human beings - meaning, regressing back to the animal kingdom - are actually relatively rare, and would occur mainly in within the very first of a soul's human incarnations when the desires and propensities of animal life are so overwhelmingly strong, that the soul may occasionally allow this regression in order to satisfy or complete more fully the animal phase.

Further, even if this regression does occur, it would still be within and subject to the general progression or hierarchies within animal life, meaning a regressive incarnation for a human being back into animal, would likely mean becoming a more advanced animal, such as more intelligent and feeling mammal - not insect (although allowing for any exception).

Otherwise the very nature - and law - of human life is to evolve out of the animal life, and progress into a divine life.

~ J

Your comment provides the answer.

Namaste.

[inavalan]

If you understand how and why reincarnation happens, you understand that "regressive reincarnation" is a nonsense. Nobody reincarnates. Only whatever incarnates can reincarnate, which is no physical aspect you can thing of.

You, as you are now, as well as that insect you're thinking of, will die and remain only as though-form. Whatever incarnated as you will "wake up" from the dream that your life was.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

In the West, reincarnation for humans generally means you will only come back as a human.

In the West, reincarnation for animals generally means you can only come back as an animal. In the West, animals can not reincarnate as humans.

In the East, this is not true. For example, Buddha was once a monkey.

I am not familiar with the story that Buddha was once a monkey but we have to use our faculty of intelligent discrimination.

If this means that the consciousness which expressed itself through the Buddha had a recent previous incarnation as a monkey then I suggest that this can be dismissed as a myth.

If it means that the life-force which expressed itself through the Buddha had in previous cycles been through the mineral, vegetable and animal kingdoms before individualising as human consciousness then this is the natural order of evolution.

As Jyotir says, the very nature - and law - of human life is to evolve out of the animal life, and progress into a divine life.

Peace.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by iamthat

I am not familiar with the story that Buddha was once a monkey but we have to use our faculty of intelligent discrimination.

If this means that the consciousness which expressed itself through the Buddha had a recent previous incarnation as a monkey then I suggest that this can be dismissed as a myth.

If it means that the life-force which expressed itself through the Buddha had in previous cycles been through the mineral, vegetable and animal kingdoms before individualising as human consciousness then this is the natural order of evolution.

As Jyotir says, the very nature - and law - of human life is to evolve out of the animal life, and progress into a divine life.

Peace.

In regards to your former statement that I highlighted, I would assume you would also say Lord Vishnu is a myth because he was once a fish god.


As for your latter highlighted statement, I say your perception of "the natural order of evolution" is spot on!

[Shivani Devi]

As a Hindu myself, I also agree with Jyotir and iamthat, in that regressive reincarnation just does not happen, although some Hindu schools still believe in it, like the Hare Krishna movement.

This is done for guilt inducing "punitive outcomes" ...just like how Christians have a concept of Hell, and so, some of the more conservative Hindu cults (like the Gaudiya Vaishnavas) thought "hmmm...how do we relate a Christian concept of "Hell" to the reincarnation system"? Totally forgetting that Hindus already HAVE a "Hellish plane" called Naraka and a "Heavenly plane" called Swarga.

So, according to these "Westernized versions" of Hinduism like the Hare Krishna movement, if you are lazy and sleep too much, you get reborn as a bear...if you are a glutton and overeat, you get reborn as a pig...if you like to copulate with abandon, a rabbit birth is more than likely for you...and so on...and so forth.

These are tales told to Hindu children to instruct them in moral ethics..."get up child and do your prayers to God...you don't want to be reborn as a bear next life, do you?" It is in the same vein as "stop watching too much TV or your eyes will become square".

Unfortunately, Westerners have only been exposed to "Western Hinduism" especially from places like Bengal and Kolkata...where all these tales of reverse reincarnation originated from...other places in India just don't have these notions...and it certainly isn't mentioned in the Vedas or Upanishads anywhere...nor is reincarnation in general, come to think about it.

As to whether insects go to heaven? I think that an organism must have a degree of sentience to attain an afterlife...I am still wondering if there is an afterlife for people's pets such as dogs and cats and to be with their owners in Heaven...there is a place for dogs and cats called "rainbow bridge" which is between heaven and Earth and that is where deceased pets go...maybe there is a similar thing for other animals and insects? I have no idea! Once I understand more about the consciousness of everything "non human", I shall know more about it, but for now I know absolutely nothing on the matter.

There we go...this is as serious as I get.

[winter light]

I once heard about someone critical of TM meditation who quipped that the meditators would reincarnate as cows chewing the cud. It still strikes me as funny every time I think about it.

[inavalan]

Laugh at those ...

By the way, I don't do TM.