Do All Insects Go To Heaven?

[davidsun]

....strange that in this particular thread, as named, a butterfly seems to have forgotten that she has always, always, always....had wings (and came here with them).

....when you are ready to shed the chrysalis you required for your time during this earthly Soul-journ, you will find your wings waiting in the same heart you've hidden them in, where they've always been, even before you came here. It's the same heart where "You feel You in the Mirror of Creation, as does Buddha's heart, (and each of our own) perfectly expresses in the only way possible...everywhere, silently, compassionately."

That's why there's no need to go anywhere else to be yourself, or change the Infinite Essence you've always been.


Just BE Who you've always been, when you're ready.

....P.S. your "praying mantis" friend says hi (while mumbling under its breath, "wish I had me some wings, too!"). Maybe she can teach us all how to fly!

P.P.S Greenslade is AWESOME!

On the other hand (other than self-affirmation indulging advice which is indeed 'sweet'), there's the presently much overlooked advice like:

"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in [the sanctity of insects ], it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it?" (The 'worm' being 'disappointment' and 'dissatisfication', IMO.)

and

"the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be..."

And then there's the also much ignored guidance from The Bhagavad Gita (Ch.18):

"Hear further the three kinds of pleasure. That which increases day after day delivers one from misery, which at first seems like poison but afterwards acts like nectar*– that pleasure is Pure, for it is born of Wisdom.

That which at first is like nectar, because the senses revel in their objects, but in the end acts like poison – that pleasure arises from Passion.

While the pleasure which from first to last merely drugs the senses, which springs from indolence, lethargy and folly – that pleasure flows from Ignorance."

Beware seductive sweet-talkers, I say.

That[/u] kind of 'friend'(?) you know I ain't!

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

On the other hand (other than self-affirmation indulging advice which is indeed 'sweet'), there's the presently much overlooked advice like:

"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in [the sanctity of insects ], it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it?" (The 'worm' being 'disappointment' and 'dissatisfication', IMO.)

and

"the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be..."

And then there's the also much ignored guidance from The Bhagavad Gita (Ch.18):

"Hear further the three kinds of pleasure. That which increases day after day delivers one from misery, which at first seems like poison but afterwards acts like nectar*– that pleasure is Pure, for it is born of Wisdom.

That which at first is like nectar, because the senses revel in their objects, but in the end acts like poison – that pleasure arises from Passion.

While the pleasure which from first to last merely drugs the senses, which springs from indolence, lethargy and folly – that pleasure flows from Ignorance."

Beware seductive sweet-talkers, I say.

That[/u] kind of 'friend'(?) you know I ain't!

If you knew that you could actually save someone from going to Hell by being kind, compassionate, encouraging, non judgmental, understanding, uplifting, inspiring, sweet talking and sugar coating if need be to build up their self-confidence and spiritual strengths and not just pick them to pieces for every minor faux-pas because "they fully deserve it" and then just keep hitting them over the head with a baseball bat until they do something drastic like hurting themselves or another, ensuring them a place in eternal damnation because they added you to their growing list of "people who just don't give a f-" ...would you? Or would you just let them rot?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

If you knew that you could actually save someone from going to Hell by being kind, compassionate, encouraging, non judgmental, understanding, uplifting, inspiring, sweet talking and sugar coating if need be to build up their self-confidence and spiritual strengths and not just pick them to pieces for every minor faux-pas because "they fully deserve it" and then keep hitting them over the head with a baseball bat until they do something drastic like hurting themselves or another, ensuring them a place in eternal damnation because they added you to their growing list of "people who just don't give a damn" ...would you? Or would you just let them rot?

If you are trying to make me feel 'guilty', it didn't work. I gave the very best I have to give.

You've got sugar daddies to get what you think of as 'love' from and 'give a damn about'. I wuz just giving you and other readers an alternative value-set to consider.

[JosephineB]

You living in love and joy davidsun. No, not buying it. You seem bored. Maybe you could look at doing volume two. Keep yourself busy.

[BigJohn]

My 2 cents worth. I don't think a person can save another person from heaven or hell. I believe they got to do it on their own.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

You living in love and joy davidsun. No, not buying it. You seem bored. Maybe you could look at doing volume two. Keep yourself busy.

Its complicated. From my treatise, which is not for 'sale', so you can't 'buy' it even if you wanted to by the way:

Note: the applicability of any and all analogies is limited by the partiality of the significators they contain. If what’s said in the above paragraph is still fairly new news to you, watch that you don’t consequently just go off on a Pollyanna‧ish☺ Love and Joy dispensing ‘ride’ in a naive attempt to unreservedly welcome and be supportive of anything and everything about yourself and/or others just as they are. Unconditional Love is often extolled as being the most ‘perfect’ kind of ‘love’. But the fact is that maximal experience and expression of Love and Joy cannot always be so simply actualized in the context of a multiplistically complex world such as ours. (This, notwithstanding the fact that many of Jesus’ exhortations which focused on promoting brotherly love (see Matthew 5:43-48 for example) may be read to support such ‘unconditional’ proposition. The way in which he addressed establishment Scribes and Pharisees stand in sharp contrast to these, however.)

The relevant bit of information in this case is that, despite the fact that each and every soul and personality aspect thereof really derives from and so may truly be regarded as being an expression of Life Itself, some configurations thereof are more conducive of experience and further expression of Love and Joy while others are not only less so but may even be counterproductive in said regard. As the apostle Paul put it: “In a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor.” (II Timothy 2:20) So embracing and supporting everyone and everything equally, without reservation in any regard, will not serve to operationally maximize the flowering and fructification of Love and Joy in The Flow‑Field of Life.

Among other things (expanding the scope of The Tree of Life analogy), because of the fact that still incarnating souls are often, in one way or another, still fairly selfishly motivated, they may also (in many cases quite unconsciously!) in effect function (sometimes quite ‘poisonously’ even) as ‘parasites’ and ‘thorns’ in relation to others. Would-be Cosmic, i.e. Tree-hugging☺, souls may therefore be purposed (by Love and Joy, which is the imperative of Life Itself!) to learn to recognize as well as then devise and implement ways of deflecting and educationally redirecting or, such measures possibly failing, counteracting such tendencies in oneself and/or others so as to stop these from being harmfully ‘acted out’, if, when and in whatever ways and to whatever extent one may have the capacity to so do.

The point being made here is that, to become and synergically function as a self-transcendentally wholesome agent of Life, one must both learn to perceptively discern what sorts of things will and what sorts of things won’t really serve to optimize and augment the experience and expression of Love and Joy in the selfish-temptation filled context of Life’s earthly matrix, as well as then act wisely (i.e. judiciously) on the basis of such knowledge. As the Biblical story of Solomon’s most famous ‘judgment’ clearly illustrates, there is much more to serving the cause of Life than ‘unconditionally’ embracing and/or supporting every aspect of one’s own or others’ being-n-doing processes.

I very much appreciate the genuineness of your engagement, Josephine. I can't say that of SD, though.

[davidsun]

Hi Josephine - wondering if you can relate to this aspect of what's going on? Though not everyone likes being 'given' a 'bath', I know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_oTJpvcXag

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by davidsun

On the other hand (other than self-affirmation indulging advice which is indeed 'sweet'), there's the presently much overlooked advice like:

"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in [the sanctity of insects ], it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it?" (The 'worm' being 'disappointment' and 'dissatisfication', IMO.)

and

"the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be..."

And then there's the also much ignored guidance from The Bhagavad Gita (Ch.18):

"Hear further the three kinds of pleasure. That which increases day after day delivers one from misery, which at first seems like poison but afterwards acts like nectar*– that pleasure is Pure, for it is born of Wisdom.

That which at first is like nectar, because the senses revel in their objects, but in the end acts like poison – that pleasure arises from Passion.

While the pleasure which from first to last merely drugs the senses, which springs from indolence, lethargy and folly – that pleasure flows from Ignorance."

Beware seductive sweet-talkers, I say.

That[/u] kind of 'friend'(?) you know I ain't!

Davidsun,

....there are those whose hands (words) are extended to uplift those in need, and, there are those whose hands (words) are used for other purposes.

I remember your hands as the ones who posted this inspirational message one Christmas morning....to uplift all who saw it. http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...hlight=tubular

The message from Marianne Williamson, that your hand extended to us contained these words, "We make moment-by-moment decisions what kind of people to be -- whether to be someone who blesses, or who blames; someone who obsesses about past and future, or who dwells fully in the present; someone who whines about problems, or who creates solutions. It's always our choice what attitudinal ground to stand on: the emotional quicksand of negative thinking, or the airstrip of spiritual flight."

You are the Paradox Re-Solution 101!

"I Am THAT I Am" and "Though Art THAT" both mean both that there's 'no hope' of one's 'becoming' THAT and that there's 'no possibility' of one's 'not being' THAT.

Great wave ex-press-ion of enTHATenment.

Surf's up, folks!

Remember?

No, this is not Christmas, but that doesn't mean we can't celebrate the Spirit of giving, even this very day.

I thanked you for offering this message then, and I, "on the other hand", offer mine to you, now in the same brotherly spirit.

BTW: Where's my copy of your book, Davidsun? Where can I get one?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by guthrio

Davidsun,
....there are those whose hands (words) are extended to uplift those in need, and, there are those whose hands (words) are used for other purposes.

You and I have a quite different perception of what soul's 'need' I think, guthrio, certainly in relation to one's such SD's. In large part I was impelled to 'come back' to the issue I already raised with her because your acceptance and excuse of her contextually very dismissive (IMO) praying mantis 'joke' and praise of Greenslade's selfishness-rationalizing preachments provided her with 'cover' which she 'dressed' her self back in pronto.

I ask that you reread my recent post where I advocate non-polyanna-ishness and qualify what I think Jesus 'positionality' was in regards 'love' of Life and soul-development and upliftment above and beyond personal self indulgence, succorance and reinforcement (a la conventional understandings of the 'Spirit' of 'Christmas').

My treatise (the second chapter of which most pointedly deals with the issues at hand) and my book are both downloadable from the Books page of my website, the link to which is in my signature tag line.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

If you are trying to make me feel 'guilty', it didn't work. I gave the very best I have to give.

You've got sugar daddies to get what you think of as 'love' from and 'give a damn about'. I wuz just giving you and other readers an alternative value-set to consider.

I will take that as a "no".