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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality > Faiths of Indigenous Peoples

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  #11  
Old 21-02-2024, 12:53 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Originally Posted by Altair
It would help their reputation if they weren’t so anti-wolf. (I will always speak out for wolves!). Learn to protect your herd without shooting carnivores dead. Otherwise, fine.

There are 2 Saami groups, the Forest Saami and the Reindeer-herding Saami (the "Fell Sami") and I do not know if their attitudes towards the wolves were/are different (?)

Practically speaking, perhaps it is best to concentrate the wolf conservation efforts on the forested areas though - where their numbers have been increasing:
https://www.tunturisusi.com/euroopansudet2.png

I grew up in an area, where there were wolves, but unfortunately never irl. had the opportunity to personally connect/interact face to face with a wild wolf.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbby...3%A4ms%C3%A 4
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  #12  
Old 21-02-2024, 02:30 AM
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I grew up in an area, where there were wolves, but unfortunately never irl. had the opportunity to personally connect/interact face to face with a wild wolf.
I did get that opportunity though with a wild dingo (pack) when camping in the Central Australian desert country, where I saw some absolutely spectacular places, but my favorite place was this one (dry river bed) gorge, where we also camped the night. (Have I told this story here before?)


Between dream and reality

Early in the night heard some howling in the distance for quite a long time … but since that National Park had two camping sites, I thought that perhaps it was some idiot in that other distant camping spot pretending to be a dingo.
Or maybe it was a real dingo?

Then must have fallen asleep, when this eye, that looked like an Egyptian eye (the Eye of Horus) appeared in my dream. At a closer look, zooming into the eye, I saw that it was an eye of a dingo eyeballing me, and the eye was like wanting to say: “I have seen you!”
Just then heard a soft short howl near my tent (beside my head, where the netted window flap was) …. after which – all around us, quite near and further away … all the dingoes started to howl in chorus – howls that the rocky canyon walls echoed … and echoed … and echoed ….

What an absolutely magnificent moment!!!
I was in total rapture!

Needless to say, couldn’t sleep after that nor could I help but start longing after these dingoes, desiring to travel with them into the night.
Silently in my mind – I howled them back. This special call. Did I make it up or did I just repeat the howl of the dingo near my tent … (?)
And just then - one lone dingo howled back that call – twice!!!
A moment of total magic, when I could not tell whether reality had just become a dream or dream a reality.

In the morning when we left the camp, “saw” a dingo in my mind’s eye standing in the middle of the road – round the bend towards which we were driving … and when we did go round that bend … of course – there she was!
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  #13  
Old 21-02-2024, 08:34 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
There are 2 Saami groups, the Forest Saami and the Reindeer-herding Saami (the "Fell Sami") and I do not know if their attitudes towards the wolves were/are different (?)

Wolf genetic variation in Scandinavia isn't too great, Northern Sweden/Finland functions as a corridor for wolves to get into the western part of Scandinavia, the area where the Saami also live, AND their tame reindeer population. Swedish government ought to fix this situation. There are many brown bears in western Scandinavia but when it comes to wolves there seems to be an anti-wolf sentiment, with cheering going on for wolf hunting. They don't even have many wolves at all.
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  #14  
Old 21-02-2024, 12:02 PM
WhiteWarrior WhiteWarrior is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Wolf genetic variation in Scandinavia isn't too great, Northern Sweden/Finland functions as a corridor for wolves to get into the western part of Scandinavia, the area where the Saami also live, AND their tame reindeer population. Swedish government ought to fix this situation. There are many brown bears in western Scandinavia but when it comes to wolves there seems to be an anti-wolf sentiment, with cheering going on for wolf hunting. They don't even have many wolves at all.

Speaking as a Norwegian I hear a lot about the wolf issue frequently, it is one of those piping hot political potatoes. The Lapps here don't speak much on that but they have always been hunting them. The most fervent anti-wolf groups are elsewhere. Ask a sheep farmer about wolves... or probably for the best, don't. We have one million sheep going loose and unherded in nature, about 40 wolves in total, and those 40 wolves have a "Wanted: Dead" poster circulating. The other side are small environmental groups. But both sides have wide support in the farmer's party (now in the government faction) and in the leftist socialist parties. I have a lot to say about it but there is no point, the sides are more entrenched than Somme 1915 and it isn't really a big Saami issue.
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  #15  
Old 21-02-2024, 05:53 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Yes, it is very similar here. Maybe 40/50 wolves but people are all over the place preaching anti-wolf propaganda and of course the sheep farmers are at it as well. They think they can have their sheep outside and not give protection (fences, guard dogs).

I think the whole sheep business is a joke!! Most people don't eat mutton nor have clothes made of wool. It's just a cultural thing, the ''landscape with the sheep''. Dogs kill more sheep and bite hundreds of people every year here, wolves don't. But the wolf is the bad guy in the cultural stories.
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  #16  
Old 21-02-2024, 10:28 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Originally Posted by Altair
There are many brown bears in western Scandinavia but when it comes to wolves there seems to be an anti-wolf sentiment, with cheering going on for wolf hunting.

Besides environmental altruism, if we go back and back in time, bears have been revered totem animals, hence protected. In the eastern side of Fennoscandia, among Skolt Saami and Karelians at least, bears were considered as totemic ancestors.

Even though old stories about shapeshifting into bears or wolves abound, wolf shapeshifters were feared more than death itself.
Amerind ‘Skinwalkers’ come to mind. Is it similar – I don’t know, it just sounds similar.

Don’t know what this Somby guy is doing – is he raising awareness about the taboo subject?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkOW...ndeSomby-Topic

Does he know what he is doing, know the pitfalls of it, or is it all just about being a vocal artist playing with 'concepts'?
https://www.cafeoto.co.uk/events/tig...ts-ande-somby/
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  #17  
Old 21-02-2024, 11:05 PM
WhiteWarrior WhiteWarrior is offline
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Interesting case. Ande Somby, which I have not heard of before now, is a Lapp and a musician and a professor in Law - a rare combination. Best as I can see he is trying to interpret the nature of various animals through the joik. I don't think there is a further message in it.
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  #18  
Old 22-02-2024, 03:55 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Hi WhiteWarrior,
Nice to see Norwegian presence here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWarrior
Best as I can see he is trying to interpret the nature of various animals through the joik. I don't think there is a further message in it.

Could be, could be, he might just be an environmentally conscious Saami artiste …
Then again, it is a bit like those inkblots and word associations, mention wolf and all the shapeshifting stories from collective subconscious and the ones one has heard come to mind - I guess - if you are a Saami lol.

Years ago, purchased the dvd: “Kautokeino Rebellion”, a film which left me so very depressed I had to watch the movie “Mongol” afterwards. Those wolf totemic Mongols and Asian Turks knew how to kick a**!
Still, we do need that balance, not wanting to become a pathetic shrivelling, whining wimp nor a rabid hound from hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy3P...el=UfukCanAtik
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  #19  
Old 22-02-2024, 02:15 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Ah, best let the man speak for himself:
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/progra...yoiker/9269088

Apparently when he was 17, a wolf entered into his tent asking for his help & that situation must have affected him deeply leaving him feel that the wolf is his “kaima”, - name brother - (he says it “kaimi" or “gaimi”).

Very good – so there was a real personal story behind his wolf joik one can relate to.
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  #20  
Old 23-02-2024, 08:14 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Still, we do need that balance, not wanting to become a pathetic shrivelling, whining wimp nor a rabid hound from hell.

I don't know if you meant that literally, but canines have been carriers of rabies throughout history, as are bats. It's where we got the werewolf and vampire stories from. An infected canine is indeed a 'rabid hound from hell'..
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