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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality > Faiths of Indigenous Peoples

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  #41  
Old 03-03-2024, 03:45 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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eezi-ulgen, really – thanks again for your pointing.

Different to mine, but somewhat similar …

“Saiva leddie”
From Anna-Leena Siikala’s book, a bit loosely translated:
Besides the family line inherited human-form spirit helpers, Saami Shamans also had animal-spirit-helpers “saiva leddie” or “passevare loddi”, a spirit in the form of a bird, “saiva sarva”, a reindeer, “saiva guole“, a fish or “saiva gärmäi”, a snake, but apart from these mentioned, Saami drums also depicted other animal spirits. Uno Harva called these animal-spirit-helpers as “soul-animals”, because the shaman would enter into their form when ‘OBE-journeying’.

From Pentikainen Juha's book:
In a form of a bird, “Saiva leddie” acted as a guide when soul-journeying up to the heavens, or acted as a messenger when asking help from the holy mountain (fjell) spirits “passevare olmah”. These “passevare olmah” spirits not only advised and strengthened the shaman, but also called the shaman to his/her duties. A shaman who passed away joined the “saiva” spirits and perhaps also initiated the next shaman to be.
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  #42  
Old 03-03-2024, 12:24 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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I really do not know about Saami totems.
The only protective-animal-spirits or guardian-animal-spirits that have been seen in totemic context are those which Skolt Saami inherits from their father or mother, whose animal kin they are not allowed to kill nor eat.
This might be an older version of Saami beliefs, which may have existed among Scandinavian Saami also (?)

Edited adding a Skolt Saami video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI2J...SAKKMedialinja

Last edited by sentient : 03-03-2024 at 10:15 PM.
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  #43  
Old Yesterday, 02:42 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Looks like there are many “shamans” teaching drum journeys to meet your “Power Animals” in Norway.
New age Neo-shamanism really seems to be a phenomenon there.
Wonder if they have all been educated by Harner, starting new “shaman schools”?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Y_...yvindMartinsen

Some even with a little bit of something ‘ceremonial’ borrowed from Amerinds?

As I was watching these YouTubes, I thought that somebody is going to do belly-dancing to a joik next & I wasn’t disappointed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUJ9...nel=ElinKaaven

Just wow!
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  #44  
Old Yesterday, 04:58 PM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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@sentient Your welcome, I flow with the Spirit of the interwebs..LOL..

Here is my new age answer to "joiking as a Sami shaman" according to AI...
More a new tech answer not really new age answer, though I liked it's response..LOL..

Joiking, a form of singing in the Sami culture, held special significance for shamans, acting as a powerful tool for:

Connecting with the spirit world: Shamans used joiks to establish communication with spirits, seeking guidance, healing, or influencing events.

Entering altered states of consciousness: The rhythmic and repetitive nature of joiks, along with specific melodies and lyrics,
could facilitate the shaman entering a trance-like state, allowing them to access the spirit realm.

Healing and restoring balance: Specific joiks were believed to possess healing properties, used to treat illnesses,
restore harmony to individuals or the community, and appease angry spirits.

Therefore, joiking for a Sami shaman was not simply singing, but a sacred practice deeply integrated with their spiritual beliefs and practices.
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  #45  
Old Yesterday, 05:20 PM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Looks like there are many “shamans” teaching drum journeys to meet your “Power Animals” in Norway.
New age Neo-shamanism really seems to be a phenomenon there.

Not just there...It seems you can get your drum, power animal and a shamans certificate in a 2 weekend course for $1,000
just about anywhere in the world...(made up scenario for demonstration purposes, "AKA fake news")
Price dependent on exchange rates..LOL...
Bing Bang, Now lets set up shop...

I laugh but it is really sad how it seems shamanism has become a worldwide money maker in the name of
saving the planet or just another way of building a better ego in the name of egolessness...

On a serious note I think this commercial shamanism is dangerous...
Plus it is frustrating to try and communicate on the webs when you have to filter out Traditional Shamanism from core shamanism and neo shamanism...

...Peace...
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Last edited by eezi-ulgen : Yesterday at 07:53 PM.
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  #46  
Old Today, 01:50 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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eezi-ulgen,
Perhaps you didn’t watch Monty Python in Americas (?)
("The Spanish Inquisition" is a series of sketches in Monty Python's Flying Circus):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqre...el=SteveDevine

Nobody expected the Inquisition, but nobody expected a 3-ring circus either.
Parts of truth gathered together, “borrowing” those from different traditions and then creating a fusion of them for a commercial enterprise. A distorted “Frankenstein form of Shamanism” in the name of Shamanic research and revival. Horrified, I burned that book way back then.

And “indigenousness” has also become such a commercial label.
As fantastic as this looks and sounds! … (still love that song, she is an awesome singer), here riding a “Power Animal” I guess:
https://i0.wp.com/www.vrstupart.com/...9/MG_34951.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeH_...annel=rutebeuf

But what an elaborate hoax, a scam and such an insult to traditional people.
‘You’, don’t know whether to laugh or cry or get angry …. But I am glad you are seeing the funny side of it too eezi.
Sheesh!
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  #47  
Old Today, 04:00 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Don’t know what that wheel in the picture is supposed to represent:
https://i0.wp.com/www.vrstupart.com/...9/MG_34951.jpg

It kinda reminds me of the hunting calendar wheel of Zyrian Komi.

Here a shaman journeying in the form of an eagle-owl (I trust) – his/her animal-spirit-helper.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b5/7b/e3/b...edc615a05b.jpg

From Komi (who came to Saami-lands) we also got some totemic beliefs handed down.

Like here the bird isn’t eating its prey, but it is supposed to depict a totemic marriage:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PrVXvs_fM2Y/maxresdefault.jpg

Whatever the initial quarrels over the reindeer feeding areas were at the time of their arrival, now it is like – who doesn’t also have a Komi among our ancestors from North-East.

And this is the one I love, love, love, like yeah, that’s how it is:
https://rgdn.info/assets/uploads/ima...os/4e29e-1.jpg

The Eagle gives one a gift, a Horse to ride up and down the World Pole (Axis Mundi) to Lower, Middle or Upper Worlds (depending on a situation need presenting itself).

Shamanic journeying does have its usages and animal spirits do show up for ‘you’ to witness old things.
But why would one seek a “Power Animal” from the Lower World?

Well, Totems can show up, (not in a journey, but energetically) ... but that is if one has actually had a totemic animal spirit ancestor or ancestors, I assume. But that is like opening a portal to the “Ghost Realm” – and boy – do they make a racket (in this realm) to let you know they have been ‘awakened’ or ‘contacted’.

That is my understanding of it anyways …
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