Why is asceticism necessary for enlightenment?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I too thought that the article was very interesting.
Do certain forms of asceticism produce self-projected hallucinations based on one's belief systems?

Yes, interesting. What it tells me is that an experience based on severe self-induced health decline is probably not a believable experience. If someone fasts for 40 days and then says ''Hey guys, I'm now yours truly. Worship me'' then perhaps they are loopy.

I place more stock in healthy people sharing something extraordinary, not ''forty day'' fasters or skinny monks living on porridge..

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 50 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Comparing their feelings and experiences to other groups of people, he concluded that
"if you are an atheist and you live a certain kind of experience, you will relate it to the magnificence of the universe.
If you are a Christian, you will associate it with God".

If you keep this up, people may suspect that we are in collusion since I agree so much with what you write.
Awesome highlighted information from the linked article !

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 51 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Altair

If someone fasts for 40 days and then says ''Hey guys, I'm now yours truly. Worship me'' then perhaps they are loopy.
I place more stock in healthy people sharing something extraordinary, not ''forty day'' fasters or skinny monks living on porridge..

Although there are exceptions to every rule, I am essentially in agreement with you on that point.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 50 EXCERPT: If you keep this up, people may suspect that we are in collusion since
I agree so much with what you write.

There is only One

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

There is only One

[Guillaume]

I'm reading you, and what I've mentioned on this thread https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...d.php?t=143050
resonates with the topic here.
If I may quote myself:

Higher planes in my experience are very subtle, in general I've got visions, flashes or realizations.
It's like suddenly you feel a sensation that is beyond this world but feels familiar, and makes you understand, or realize how it works. But it's subtle, it's hard to keep that feeling in consciousness at first, but then if it comes back regularly, it becomes part of us. It becomes again part of us, because we all know. (...)
In my understanding, when people "live" or project in a world and get answers with beings, it's the brain that builds the story to support the teaching.
Visions / realizations are more crude.

So I agree that putting ourselves in altered states of consciousness to experience out of the ordinary things is a bit suspicious.
But that's precisely the objective: realizing this or that is possible in an altered state, and then, once we come back to a regular awareness, we keep that possibility with us.

In my understanding health decline or mortification are used to induce or wake up dormant / archaic survival instincts in the body. One is DMT but there is probably other chemicals and things happening.

[Traveler]

I think asceticism is a hindrance. I believe we are here to learn how to blend the spiritual world with the physical world. Experience both and learn from both.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Do certain forms of ascetism produce self-projected hallucinations based on one's belief systems?

The experience and the experiencer are one and the same, the dream and the dreamer are one and the same. Same source, different 'contents'.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Here’s an extreme example of asceticism I learnt about recently … https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu

Don’t try this at home!

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

There is only One

If I applaud, who’ll hear the sound of one hand clapping?