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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality > Faiths of Indigenous Peoples

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  #61  
Old 13-03-2024, 05:36 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen
I'm not sure if it will open without a account, but holding my fingers crossed.
https://www.academia.edu/42638588/Dark_Tent_and_Light_Tent_Two_Ways_of_Travelling_in _the_Invisible
Great find!
& Yeah, that is perhaps the summary of a longer PDF file I was looking for about the ceremony of the “shaking tent” Siberian shamans do.
Quote:
From the eighteenth century onwards, Russian observers have described divination seances held in the dark among the West Siberian Ob Ugrians, in particular the Khant. The classic scenario is as follows: in order to discover where to find abundant game or fish, a ritual specialist is tied up in a totally dark tent, during the night. Bird calls and animal cries make themselves heard and these inform the hunters where these creatures are to be found. Sometimes the dwelling shakes when the spirits arrive. After calling, some animals such as the bear begin to speak in human language and people can chat with them. If a sceptic doubts the reality of the scene, a bear or squirrel’s paw may hit that person. At the end of the performance, the invisible beings help the shaman to free himself from his ties. The officiant is not remunerated and does not wear any special clothing (Fedorova 2010: 171; Kulemzin 2004: 50–51;Novicki 1941: 54)
Curious how similar that also sounds to what you described, except you emphasized the healing aspect.
Here is the bear carrying a medicine pouch – yes?
https://agnes.queensu.ca/site/upload..._2-848x550.jpg

Well, since it looks like that bear or moose ancestor story is most prevalent among the Forest and the Skolt Saami, it is kinda no wonder they turned up whilst ‘journeying’:
https://www.karhuntassu.fi/en/front-...estral-father/

Also as I mentioned before, among the Eastern i.e. Inari, Forest and Skolt Saami many stories about people shapeshifting into bears are told. When dead bears were skinned, money pouches were found underneath the pelt between the front paws … or so the many stories tell.

One of the comments in the Finnish bear mythology YouTube was:
Quote:
And then there's wolverine. The walking anger management problem of the forest.
Haha. Fancy having a wolverine as your (totemic) ancestor.
Shouldn’t laugh but.
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  #62  
Old 13-03-2024, 12:54 PM
WhiteWarrior WhiteWarrior is offline
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Dark tent sounds completely logical to me. Whenever I do spiritual work I turn off all the light in the room, close screens, close eyes and might pull a blanket over my eyes too. It is the logical way to shut out as much external stimuli as possible. A light tent would be logical too though if there were onlookers or if fire was part of what I was doing.
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  #63  
Old 13-03-2024, 11:15 PM
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I just wondered if the “dark tent” was a ‘symbol’ of a bear den?
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  #64  
Old 13-03-2024, 11:43 PM
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To put us into the landscape:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rITj...onWildlifeCams

The pine the bear claws and rubs against is perhaps not spruce but a kind of nordic scots pine, which led the ancestors believe it was the bear’s guardian/protecting spirit tree …
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  #65  
Old 14-03-2024, 12:57 AM
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Of course it is sad when a bear cub is orphaned and now lives in captivity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roKv...hannel=karhutv

Aina the forestry worker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t78a...hannel=karhutv
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  #66  
Old 14-03-2024, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen
The Wolf I would say is a Chief in it's own purposes...Yes??
P.S. the above opinions I wrote about are based on my experience but please keep in mind that this is from a layman's perspective and I am talking of others cultural beliefs that have been told to me...So if I misrepresent anything, I offer my apologies in advance...
I’m sure you have got nothing to apologize for!
And thank you very much for your honest recount of your “dark tent” experiences here with the Bear.

Despite our cultural similarity with the Ob-Ugrians (Khanty, Mansi) in regards the Bear ceremonies, I have never attended the “dark tent” ceremony.
Except – ‘it’ happened. 4 synchronistic events hitting at once ‘checkmated’ me and like from the depths of my bone marrow an animal sound was forced/forged out of me and then the wolf arrived with so much racket all around me which lasted about 3-4 days.
Didn’t know what to do with it, so I just witnessed it.

Then again. Had always subconsciously (in my bones) been aware of my Siberian-Turkic connection. (3/4 of my genetic Siberian is Turkic). Does that apply to all Saami? Don’t know. If it did, they would remember it, surely (?) ….
Or does that only apply to the Kola and the Forest Saami? It was interesting to read that for the Forest Saami not only the bear and the moose but also the wolf were important animals. I wonder.
Or does it only apply to me, due to gran’s more recent (than the collectively with Saami - shared ancient) Siberian ancestor? Still don’t know.

Continuing from the link you provided, it is still in the similar ballpark imo:
Quote:
In the early twentieth century, at the other extremity of Siberia, near the Bering Strait, the ethnographer Waldemar Bogoras participated in ritual performances that were similar in many ways. Among the various activities of Chukchi shamans, the most frequent type of performance (which only they perform and in which they demonstrate their most amazing talents) is the ritual of ‘separate voices’. This rite takes place at night, after eating dinner, in a tent that is completely dark. Participants group around the shaman, who sits upright with his torso naked, sometimes tied up but alternatively sometimes free to play the drum. S/he sings melodies, at first softly and then more and
more strongly. The chant has no words and consists of a short melody repeated indefinitely: ‘Ah, ya, ka, ya, ka, ya, ka!’ The helpers do not sing, but from time to time emit encouraging interjections to support the shaman. If he has a drum, the shaman uses it as a resonance chamber, directing the sounds into the darkness. In this way, the shaman’s voice seems to move into different places
in the tent. After 15–30 minutes, the shaman makes his lips vibrate while shaking his head, and one hears various humans and animal noises and cries; these are the ‘separate voices’ of the spirits (kelet) beginning to arrive.
In the words of Bogoras:
Some voices are at first faint, as if coming from afar; as they gradually
approach, they increase in volume, and at last they rush into the room,
pass through it and out, decreasing, and dying away in the remote
distance. Other voices come from above, pass through the room and
seem to go underground, where they are heard as if from the depths of
the earth.


Turkic Tengrist Wolf Totem (which still ‘lives’ in the collective subconscious or like in cellular memory):
(But not to be directly associated with Turkey):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXTg...el=Khan%27sDen

How might this relate to Americas? Yous have the Red Wolf. Tengrists have the Blue Wolf.
Aren’t there 4 wolves altogether in some of the old stories? Like the wolves from 4 directions or something???
Or is that some kind of a constructed new age story?
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  #67  
Old 15-03-2024, 01:28 AM
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The ritual of 4 wolves????
https://www.zennergi.com/en/aanbod/ritual-four-wolves/

Was this actually an ancient Tengri ritual or what!?

Another source:
https://www.facebook.com/people/Nati...0064594213599/
Quote:
First, shamans utter different sounds at the beginning of some rituals in order to call their spirits. This ’shaman’s call‘ includes different types of ’nature sounds‘ such as the whistling of the wind or the wolf’s howl. This call is the shaman’s way of asking the land for assistance in the ritual. The wolf as a part of the land is therefore included...
Second, the wolf used to serve as a mount for shamans to ride to faraway places fast while being in a trance...
Third, the shaman also uses to let wolves bring spirits to him while he was shamanizing. In past times it was even thought possible for some powerful shamans to turn themselves into a wolf...
Yes – no …
It is more like a long time ago the wolf gave ‘one’ its call - ‘one’ could later use to call it .…

& Is this Russian (perhaps Siberian admixed) guy for realz or totally new age or somewhere in between?
Looks like yet another money making scheme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCa8...amkaraFoxArrow
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  #68  
Old 15-03-2024, 11:00 AM
WhiteWarrior WhiteWarrior is offline
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I had a lot of native related dreams last night. Don't know which culture. I was shown some simple representations of humans, like silhouettes. Such as might be painted on a drum. The first was red and meant male. The second was blue and meant female. There was a third, but it was NOT to be drawn, just implied. Does this sound familiar to any of you guys?
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  #69  
Old 15-03-2024, 11:36 AM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
& Is this Russian (perhaps Siberian admixed) guy for realz or totally new age or somewhere in between?
Looks like yet another money making scheme:

Yeah, your probably spot on with Ahamkara being in between, I've bumped into his stuff here and there, I would say he is commercializing his training and that sure seems more popular nowadays...

It's such a hard call these days...Do Shamans stay isolated and financially broke and traditional, and maybe die out and we loose knowledge like has been going on with the crusading Christians and industrialization for some time or does some commercial practices get excepted?? I still struggle with these questions and have no real answers...Of course there are real plastic shamans practicing real plastic medicine digging deep into peoples plastic cards...

So I ran across this Youtube of a Shaking Tent practitioner...
It kind of AWED me and gave me hope in the future...
I wanted to share it here but then I didn't want to share it here...
But here it is...It is long (1:47:47), but yada yada yada LOL which I think translates to blah blah blah...Well I don't want color anyone's perception...Take it or leave it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxusCVa54Hs&t=1300s
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  #70  
Old 15-03-2024, 11:39 AM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWarrior
Does this sound familiar to any of you guys?

Yep, dreaming can be an important tool in ones Life...
Figuring and sorting all the meanings can be a challenge...

...Peace...
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