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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality > Faiths of Indigenous Peoples

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  #151  
Old 23-05-2024, 05:05 PM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
There is no “third person” as such in that perspective, only the perspective of an awareness that witnesses both - the self and the other - as Self. I do not know, never met Mooji, so I am just imagining that nondual witness Self …

Mooji is always pointing to that Awareness that is the Pure Being without a story which is called by many names...
I also never met him except I catch his essence through a screen...LOL...
He's funny...

Shoot, you gotta watch the ego self which wears many masks...
We still must play our part on this stage of Life...

...Peace...
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  #152  
Old 25-05-2024, 11:35 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen
I also never met him except I catch his essence through a screen...LOL...
He's funny...

Is ‘he’ funny (witty) or is it that from the ‘assemblage-point of nondual awareness’ perspective – the seriousness of an apparently, separately existing self-identification looks & sounds funny?

Perhaps both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnBD...FosterOfficial

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8D1...FosterOfficial
“The answer is in silence” ….
“Honor the wave whilst knowing the ocean …”


In the tribal settings/situations that I’ve been a part of – the individual differences are very much celebrated and encouraged, but within that collective presence sense as to how these serve the collective whole.

I cannot ‘read’ Mooji’s energy-field through the screen, have never made personal contact with him, but had I visited Portugal where he lives, I would have been curious to go & sit in his presence letting the ‘silence’ (which I equate with ‘space’) point out where his “assemblage point of awareness” is at.
Or like a ‘tuning fork’ aligned with his presence and then finding it incredibly difficult to speak as all the words uttered just end up sounding so fake …
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  #153  
Old 25-05-2024, 11:45 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Listening …

From one ….
In the end the only thing that I could relate to that (likely a distant Saami relative’s) book: “The Shamanic Zone” (mentioned earlier) - was the point he had made about listening.

To another….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLWv...nnel=ErinBlack
“The sensory overload”

At that timeframe when I was simultaneously studying and working with the 2 groups, the First Nations and a Western group - OMG the sensory overload I felt @ the Western group, and it was absolutely driving me crazy & up the wall! – yet all the others in that group considered it as Normal.

In contrast, the Normal @ the First Nations group was “the awareness-ground of silence” (which I call “awareness-space”, but in practice it mounts to be the same) and when the Elders present there are and/or are in that ‘silence’ and you could just tune into it and rest/let go into that silence - then all the activities, everything just falls into ‘place’.

And once one is that and/or in that shared presence of silence – one can start to look and listen & learn …

Yet – people are always trying to ‘organize’ the ‘natives’.
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  #154  
Old 28-05-2024, 01:33 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Came across this quote by Mooji and did not or still - (because I haven’t met him) do not know what he meant by it exactly:
"Don't let the mind set the stage for your life because it will always be a limitation"
~ Mooji

However, as I was reflecting back on that sensory overload, that overwhelm and all the stress of it …
"The map is not the territory"
~ Alfred Korzybski

Mind as a map i.e. Map as mind’s summary of Life, Universe and Everything ….
When we are convinced of the rightness of our maps and identify with it, then our minds start to try to dictate what the consensus view of reality should be and further to try to control, organize it, competing with other maps for the place/hierarchy in the “Sun”.
But this in a group situation sets the stage for the “kingdom of confusion of tongues”, where everyone speaks the same language yet do not understand each other.
A very claustrophobic situation for me anyways, where as if all the air-space had been sucked out, creating a “frozen” image/version of reality one should then have to be molded, boxed into.

Is this what Mooji meant by mind setting the stage for your life? Don’t know.
But according to my map – this is how I understand it. (Contradiction – I know).

*

Tolle had said something like “The whole phenomenal existence unfolding in vast spaciousness”.

Well, when ‘you’ step out of the stage-set of mind maps and enter another group, where the PRESENCE of vast Silent and Still SPACIOUSNESS sets the stage, what a blooming relief!

With the map out of the way - so much room to move, so much room to be yourself, whoever ‘you’ are - and spacious still silence enabling one to look and listen, to observe connections to and/or between things …

To me it felt like leaving the mental map world and entering the territory.
(where in a group setting "all my planets lined up").

P.S.
Which reminds me …
Was this self-conscious moment his unwillingness to leave the “territory” and enter the expected “mind map world”?:
From 3:26 to 4:11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPiK...onalGeographic

What did that bird in that moment of silence tell him – if anything?
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  #155  
Old 28-05-2024, 06:20 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
What did that bird in that moment of silence tell him – if anything?

Heh.
Was it this bird?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y1I...annel=Tolkuton

This bird is said to be very meaningful for the Saami.
Apparently or allegedly, when this bird (riekko) laughs in those fells, it always means more snow is coming … and if it sits on the branch of a tree - expect a heavy snowstorm …
(I didn’t read any other ‘omeny’ meanings ….)

At least that riekko bird (if that was what the bird was) had good timing …
"Reaffirmations From The World Around Us" lol.
Riekko’s announcement (within having entered into listening that silence) served as a reaffirmation about what the bloke was saying - heh.

Ahhhhh… Now we are in the “aboriginal/indigenous" territory … finally
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  #156  
Old 30-05-2024, 01:23 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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^
Not saying, this was the name of the game in that video situation, I wasn’t there, but I’ll use it to create a yarn to illustrate “silence territory” … (from my personal experience perspective).

Clearly, in the video the Saami bloke is not comfortable being a poser for the camera as he is no urban ‘cappuccino-conversationalist’ keen to conceptualize about his indigenousness. Nor is he a New Age Harner shaman word salad man.

It is about here and now & reindeer herding.
New snow is needed to soften the hard layer of snow beneath, so that it will be easier for the reindeer to dig for food.
And just stating it & then listening in on the silence around the snow question – ‘riekko’, the weather messenger, the snow forecaster appears like on cue into that silence to announce a snow fall coming.

If that was my (mind map) belief about the riekko bird, I would take note of that synchronistic moment.

But how would you then convey that to the person filming, who is solely focused on an object - ‘you’. Filmmaker who isn’t tuned in on … doesn’t watch & listen to the living connections through that space silence happening ….
There is a barrier of perception, even though he doesn’t set any barrier between indigenous and non …

Silence territory, where ‘magic’ happens, and isn’t ‘my’ magic … it doesn’t belong to anybody …
Around Elders synchronicities often happen thick and fast. Noticing them people tend to focus on the Elder as the source of them, which again places the focus on the wrong thing …


I don’t know – it however drives me bonkers when people come asking and expecting ‘indigenous knowledge’ to be given only focusing on things & conceptual data collection - totally ignoring the ‘elephant in the room’ – the ‘silence dimension’.

If that illustrates anything about the “silence territory”?
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  #157  
Old 05-06-2024, 12:51 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Interpreting the Arctic …

By collective consensus this ‘announcement’ allegedly means snowfall with no wind …
https://www.tiktok.com/@tunturiakka/...71077000285472
If it ‘laughed’ at dusk, that would mean snowstorm.

Where I grew up, we didn’t have these Riekko - Willow Ptarmigan birds, so I cannot testify to it.

I don’t believe any of these Saami beliefs to be true or real, but I do not consider them as illusions or mere mind imaginations/fairytales/superstitions either. Depends on a situation-play.

A lot of New Age believers go for the Amerind beliefs about animals:
From the net, if these are true?:
Quote:
Willow Ptarmigan is a symbol of strength and resilience among Native Americans, a reminder that we can overcome difficult situations with fortitude.
For example, many tribes would represent the ptarmigan in rituals meant to provide strength before going into battle or setting out on a long journey. There is also evidence that the bird’s feathers were routinely used as part of healing practices such as smudging ceremonies.

Are Saami right in believing the ptarmigan is your weather-man or are Amerinds right in thinking that when listening in on & reflecting the non-local awareness about a long journey ahead - a sudden, unusual appearance of a ptarmigan is a good omen?

Both are right.
Because, when “The Universe” (or call it now the non-local consciousness) answers our silent and still inquiries – it will manifest, come through, use our subconscious (local mind-map) belief system.

This always cracks me up:
"Is the Guardian Angel a white flying human or a white flying horse?
Of course everyone knows it is a white flying horse!"


I swear by the latter, can testify to it, because that is how the ‘guardian angel’ appeared to me, but I can understand the Christian “dream” of seeing it in a human form.

When I hear an ‘other dimensional echo’ in the thunder’s voice – for me it is the “Thunderbird”, for an aboriginal, thunder is the voice of the “Rainbow Serpent”. Both (in my experience) *shift* one to witness Eternity in the Now/temporal, where Time and Timelessness, Essence and Creation meet, which I call the “The World Pillar”.
So far so similar - however – the realization that I was in the Elder’s “dream” came, when the *shift* back into time came – with the Blue Winged Kookaburra making its appearance, like in the Creation story.

There is this white guy, Charles Hulley who wrote the book “The Rainbow Serpent”. He had known about the Rainbow Serpent and the Blue Winged Kookaburra myth, but at one time when listening to an Elder as he was pointing out a rock painting of the Serpent and then witnessing the ‘coincidental’ appearance of the Blue Winged Kookaburras had startled him and this (“magic”, my word) had started to dominate his thoughts ….

*

Perhaps it is some Christian either/or mind propaganda legacy that debates whether phenomenal world appearances are real or mere illusions ….
Perhaps it is Shamanic or indigenous both/and (perhaps Buddhist as well?) mind propaganda legacy which explores that twilight zone, that doorway, that awareness ground of ambiguity where non-local – local interchange as Energy happens.


Nobody can escape mind-map making. But which comes first, knowing or not-knowing. “To know is not to know”
If we are using awareness as a sense, we will listen in on the silence around the subject matter in question with a still reflection (i.e. not knowing) & witness the ‘answer’ out of that silence. This I call “seeing”.
The “seeing” comes first and then afterwards one looks at the details ….
If the mind-map sets the stage then we are then putting the cart before the horse by looking first what the mind-map tells us we are observing and then thinking we know.

*

This Chopra’s ‘life hack’ comes pretty close, to what I’d call ‘using awareness as a sense’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTft...=TheChopraWell

*

Whose collective subconscious “dreaming reality” are you going to believe in?
Amerind, Saami, Aboriginals, Siberians?
What is yours?

What subconsciously, our mind-map mythology is can potentially be explored through “shamanic journeying”.
The idea here being to examine our own mind-map beliefs & respect but not just buy into somebody else’s.
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  #158  
Old 07-06-2024, 02:18 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Time is Never Experienced
5:20 – 7:48:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKW-...eandNonduality

I can ski along these nonduality talks and go: “ Yep, yep, yep, been there, done that, know this, tasted that” …
but then when it comes to the talk about “time”, my mental skis cross and come to a sudden halt.
Here I see the limited mind talking within and about its own limits repeating the limited mind-map beliefs by saying “the past and the future are never experienced” as if that was a statement of true knowing of experience.

Well, the bloke obviously doesn’t come from a shamanic background – where the past and the future are experienced, so much so that these are the most common of ‘shamanic’ experiences.

One experience that really brought it home to me was one morning when walking to the bus stop and seeing a 2-car collision which had just happened at the cross roads to my right. A white car and a darker colored one. Then looking ahead and looking back to my right & the cars weren’t there!!!
Well, this sent my mind into a disarray – “What was that!? Did I dream it last night? Did I see it in the news last night, in a newspaper? What???”
The next morning when I walked to the bus stop and looked to my right – I saw a 2-car collision which had just happened at that cross roads. A white car and a darker colored one, exactly the same scene as yesterday! This time the experience did not vanish but.

Very common among the Saami and Karelians.
In Finnish “Etiäinen”:
https://mysticaltimesblog.com/finnis...eti%C3%A4inen/

In Saami language, when you see/experience future it is called: “Ovdasas” (forerunner), when seeing/experiencing past it is called “Mannasas” (past tense, afterwards) …

Usually there is an other-dimensional quality (echo) to these to tell your mind you are (your energy field is) perceiving or receiving a premonition ‘energetically’ even though your mind sees it and/or hears it …. But not in that 2-car collision scene, it was straight up.

I already mentioned in another post, how I used to see this Amerind guy clear as a day in front of me before he would actually physically walk towards me around the corner. He told me this ‘seeing’ happens to him all the time …

The first Aboriginal Elder I met - experienced very similarly, so we never needed to discuss this common occurrence …
“Dreamtime” isn’t the right word, although commonly used - is beyond but includes the past, present/now and the future.

Don’t know what the quantum physics and non-local consciousness has to say about it?
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  #159  
Old 10-06-2024, 09:00 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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It's Not Enough to Discover What You Are Not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmDT...ndNondualit y

I do enjoy Spira’s nonduality talks and by large agree with them with one exception. Energy.
Everything is Energy and Energy has Consciousness aspect which brings everything to life.
Isn’t that the union of Shakti and Shiva?

8:04 – 8:40
Quote:
Most people when they go back, they - when they go to what they call themselves - they don't go all the way back to their essential irreducible self they just go to this self … made out of thoughts and feelings - the apparently separate self and having only gone that far, most people's thoughts and feelings are based or express that self are *informed by that self and their subsequent activities and relationships are an expression of that sense of one's self.
In my experience, here is where the ‘shamanic self’ and Western idea of ‘self’ differ.

Here imo. he talks about the “the assemblage-point-of-awareness” as ‘self’ of a common Western mind-map-self, but “the assemblage-point-of-awareness” as ‘self’ in a shamanic worldview is assemblaged in the interconnected energy layer between the Westerner’s idea of self and the “I AM” presence (translated perhaps as “Pole Star”).

In previous post the “doppelgänger” was mentioned (the ‘ghostly’ counterpart of a living person), the person’s ‘guardian’, the energy double, the energy-field-self, the so called “shadow-self” or the “shadow-soul” … but which is actually considered to be the more real ‘self’ of a person than the physical appearance & the finite-mind-map-self Spira just described.
But he is right … that IS the “Western mind dreaming” its reality ….

“Shamanic energy double dreaming“ its reality is different, because in a shamanic sense, we are *informed by our energy double as self (hence it is also called guardian) rather than by the finite-mind-self … Spira talks about. And the limits of the ‘finite-mind-map as self’ do not apply to the energy double, which could be likened more to the ‘self’ experienced in NDEs as we see the ‘energy-double’ being the one (free soul) surviving death and is the ‘self’ of the departed we ‘energetically’ communicate with.

I assume this energy-double as self has its origin in animism.

32:19 – 46:39
Ah, the Light and being a Zero! Imo. the questioner here wasn’t all over the place, he was describing that Light accurately from his own genuine energetic experience, even the drop having well and truly dropped into the Ocean bit.
That imo. was Light Energy seeing/being aware of itself ….
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  #160  
Old 12-06-2024, 05:54 PM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Is ‘he’ (Mooji) funny (witty) or is it that from the ‘assemblage-point of nondual awareness’ perspective – the seriousness of an apparently, separately existing self-identification looks & sounds funny?

I don't really know those terms...(‘assemblage-point of nondual awareness’) especially assemblage point, though I have a guess of what they mean...
Methinks Mooji has jokes..LOL
Though I would not seek to enter the kind of gathering he puts on...Guru worship makes me kinda cringe...
He just keeps popping up in my algorithm...

He does seems to point people to themselves as they are without any person with a past or future that they created in this Lifes journey...Or temporary phenomenal being...
To that Source which has always existed inside of people and is plain as day or the sky but people can't see through their own clouds of ego and personified emotion and thoughts, I guess...Or the God within that All existance came from...
I guess that's what he is pointing at...Many people seem to point towards a imaginary Enlightenment, the big bang moment and walking on water for the rest of their days...LOL
Many people seem to not see the Holiness within there every breath and cell of existence that they paved over with their ego and person-hood...

I like my own clouds too, hopefully I've learned not to wind them up into storms and tornadoes or hurricanes...These days I try to exist in the present with my feet on the Earth and my head/mind in the energy of the sky with only puffy white clouds that hopefully don't rain down to much energetic disturbances from Life's complexities...Notice my 3 levels on the Tree of Life approach...LOL
Hopefully growing into a state of becoming more Unconditional Love and Compassion...Though it seems from on my end it is hard to examine oneself when a delusion is easier to believe then reality...

Hope you like my word stew, I call it moo goo gai pan...LOL
I got to post this moo goo gai pan before I delete it...Uugh, growl,
Words are hard to convey what I am trying to say...

...Peace...
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