A part or apart?

From my blog:

Many see our existence as if we are part of God, created by God to perform or experience some kind of physical activity, and then to return to God. The follow on from this then is that each of us ‘is’ God, or at least a bit of God connected to the ‘rest of God’, and that we can each find the God connection within us if we look. This leads to the conclusion that if we are made of God that we have access to the things that God can do – or something like that. God is perfect and therefore so are we. This is a monistic viewpoint – one that many have followed.
Yet there is a problem with this concept.
It lies firstly with the creation bit, for something to be created it must be made to come into existence, to make something that had no existence prior to the act of creation. This act by itself defines a separation from the creator, or else it would simply be an internal manipulation of the creator, an expression rather than a creation.
For example – if an artist creates a work of art, the work of art is not part of the artist – it is apart from the artist, it has its own existence, it reflects the artist’s creative ability, but it is still separate.
The very act of creation creates duality.
The next question arises out of the concept of free will. If we have free will, and it seems we do or the perfect God would not allow us to do things that are not perfect, it seems the choices we make are not directed by God, they arise internally, and that again defines a separateness, a duality.
Perfection is yet another aspect of this issue, for if we are part of God, and God is perfect, then we are perfect, and perfection requires no change, and manifestly we do change. To believe that we are part of God, and therefore perfect is asp rational, it is I think wishful thinking in the face of the conflicting evidence.
So if God created the universe, and as part of that created man, then in some way we are separate to God, not part of God. This alone begins to explain free will and why we are not simply manipulated puppets, why we are clearly not perfect, for if we were we would never change, and we demonstrably do, and it opens the door to explaining what the purpose of this existence could be, why we learn and evolve, develop and change.
God created this universe – he created us, or actually more correctly he created the universe, including the conditions that would allow us to become, and more importantly to become something that was not predefined by God, but something that we can influence. His creation gave us a chance, an opportunity. Each choice we make, each step on the path we take will lead us somewhere. It may be that we will not find the right path, that man will destroy mankind and this opportunity will be lost, or it may be that man will, step by step, begin to fulfil the reason for the creation. This means that the process is still ongoing, it may take a long time, but that is of little consequence for a creator like God.

If you want to know why God created the universe, the real reason, then there is a sure way to find out – ask God – you may find the answer enlightening.

[psychoslice]

It all sounds like a Christians point of view, with a separate god, there is no god, no separation, there is just what IS, no philosophy needed.

Originally Posted by psychoslice

with a separate god, there is no god

lol - but there is - there is a separate god......

love
chris

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Reikichris

lol - but there is - there is a separate god......

love
chris

Yes in your mind, and that is all, no mind no god.

Hi psychoslice,
Perhaps, perhaps not - I see no evidence of a lack of god, perhaps a vacuum lies within some minds.

love
chris

Reikichris, do you see evidence of god's existence?

HI Denial,
Good question - of course I have personal expeience but that does not constitute proof - however we have the big question as to why there is life and even the universe at all - there is no explanation of either of these without some kind of creator - additionally of course there is Jesus - these do not fit well into the proof sceanrio for sceptics, but are difficultv to just dismiss. The spiritualists have demonstrated life after death, though this does not proove god directly it goes some distance.

love
chris

Originally Posted by Reikichris

From my blog:

This act by itself defines a separation from the creator, or else it would simply be an internal manipulation of the creator, an expression rather than a creation.
For example – if an artist creates a work of art, the work of art is not part of the artist – it is apart from the artist, it has its own existence, it reflects the artist’s creative ability, but it is still separate.

Exactly! I am one of those who believe that we are one with the creator. This creator is everywhere, it is the All that contains everything, and the Everything it contains. And--- everything beyond that. So in a sense, yes, you can say that everything that was going on, was going on within the creator. And in a sense, it is also separate from the creator. Because the creator is both the within, and the without.

Originally Posted by Reikichris

HI Denial,
Good question - of course I have personal expeience but that does not constitute proof - however we have the big question as to why there is life and even the universe at all - there is no explanation of either of these without some kind of creator - additionally of course there is Jesus - these do not fit well into the proof sceanrio for sceptics, but are difficultv to just dismiss. The spiritualists have demonstrated life after death, though this does not proove god directly it goes some distance.

love
chris

Reikichris, indeed what you say most evidence is personal and the existence of a creator is impossble to disprove.
I belief that the createst boundary in finding out the "a part or apart question" is figuring out the nature of the creator. Most people (I think) envision him/her/it as a human (the standard man in the clouds concept) which is improbable at best.
It is for example possible that the creator is the "big bang" making him both creation as well as creator however it is also possible that the creator caused the big bang which would mean that he made the entire universe and existed beforehand. Or that he was created after the big bang and as such is superior to us but still a creation on his own.
The scale at which we can think now makes it all the more difficult to discern that.

Hi Denial - yes - totally.
God is not human for sure - though many spirits take forms that are accessible to us so that we can interact. However god is just like most spirits (but different lol) - god can be contacted by the same methods - primarily clairvoyancy.

The big bang, and stangely the description of the creation in exodus go together well - the main discrepancy is about the use of the word days - insert instead perioads (some of which may be billions of years long) and then it fits together reasonably.
Where god came from will probably not be answerable without much more knowledge about where we came from - we can peel the onion ok knowledge one skin at a time.
Yes - scale is a major issue.

love
chris