Atheism is a Religion

Originally Posted by Godspark

I never really understood what's stopping atheists going on mass murdering spree's, with no god to hold them accountable for their actions, the only thing holding them accountable is themself and the threat of being caught and going to jail. They might have their own moral code and moral judgment, but what is stopping an atheist from going against their morals, or feeling the need to uphold their morals?

Good old sterotyping, judging and prejudice, never far away from discussions of this ilk.

Christianity has a history of genocide conducted in the name of God that hasppened over hundreds of years and across continents. Let's not forget the iron fist that held Europe in darkness for how many years? The Spanish Inquisition, witch trials, superstition..... Child abuse that is rife in Catholic-run orphanages and the like even to this day and covered up by the church.... You were saying about going against their morals, and for theists it's also going aginst the word of God, that makes it not just a crime but hypocracy.

Theists don't commit genocide in the name of theism. The theists leave the mass murder in the name of God - which is against the the Ten Commandments - to the theists.

If theists need the fear of God to hold them back from committing crime then what does that say about them? And theists don't commit crime, is that what you're saying? If an atheist does something good and noble they don't do it for a reward from God or fear they'll go to hell, they do it because they are good people. The bottom line is that people are just people, and if you're not Spiritual enough to look beyond the surface then that's a reflection of you. Everything you've said in this post is about you, not the atheists.

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Being good definitely depends on lot of factors . And comparing random results and deriving conclusions with ignorance of these factors can be more disastrous than helpful . That said , other things being equal , it is more difficult to be good for atheist than for theist.

Based on what study exactly, other than you're own opinion? And you were saying about ignorance? It's posts like there that only perpetuate ignorance, either go talk to the atheists or do the 'Spiritual thing' and go internally to your own Spirituality. We are all God's children, you're not supposed to judge and you're supposed to love they neighbour. Does disobeying God's Word not make you equal to the atheists, if not worse? We're all Atman and therefore Brahman, and manifestions of and children of God if you're a theist, otherwise you're not one of us.

Behind the mask people are just people, man.

As an atheist I find it easy to be good not because I'm afraid of God but because I have empathy, I don't like the idea of my fellow man/woman suffering if I can make a difference. And if I do anything it's not for the expectation of a seat at God's right hand. Maybe as a theist you've given over obeying God to your conscience and lost a part of yourself in the process. In all good conscience I couldn't have made that statement so I guess it says something of yours.

[Godspark]

Originally Posted by ketzer

I think all mythology is interesting and often fun to think about. Not being constrained by the known laws of science, myth is able to achieve things mere mortal flesh and blood cannot. God, gods, and goddesses, are even more free to lead interesting lives, and do the things we would like to. Mythology does often play an important role in defining, illustrating, and reaffirming the common values and identity of a people, helping to hold them together. Even if not true, myth can wield great power.

Amen to that!

[Godspark]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

I suppose atheist do hold themselves responsible for their own action, its sad that there are many that cannot do this, and need a man in the sky to tell them what and not what to do. These people who need a god to do good to others can be potentially dangerous, take away their god and all hell breaks out.

Hmm, maybe it's got nothing to do with beliefs then at all. Because many wars go on in gods name the old "my religion is the only true religion" thing, but also many wars that had nothing to do with religion. People can be bad apples and fall far from the tree, while other apples fall closer and are very good! :)

[Godspark]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Good old sterotyping, judging and prejudice, never far away from discussions of this ilk.

Christianity has a history of genocide conducted in the name of God that hasppened over hundreds of years and across continents. Let's not forget the iron fist that held Europe in darkness for how many years? The Spanish Inquisition, witch trials, superstition.....

Wasn't stereotyping at all, I just never understood what holds a person back from committing such acts of violence or atrocity, besides their own moral judgment or feeling accountable by other people or a higher power. It could actually be a combination of all 3, for atheists only combination of 2. I guess everyone is unique and different though, and until you walked a day or life in each others shoes you can't really judge anyone for anything. Got to forgive and accept and love everyone, even the really sick people who have done so many wrong things. Only way we heal humanity as a group, we are a human family and inhabitants of earth not citizens of countries. Electing leaders who are humanitarians would be a good start, but instead we elect celebrities like Trump or potentially Kanye. Elect an ex-paramedic or someone who has helped shelter and feed the homeless and watch how different the world becomes.

[Dargor]

Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hairstyle. Atheists don't believe in ''disbelieve''. They simply accept facts that are scientifically proven to be true while dismissing religious stories that lack evidence as mere myths.

Originally Posted by Godspark

Wasn't stereotyping at all, I just never understood what holds a person back from committing such acts of violence or atrocity, besides their own moral judgment or feeling accountable by other people or a higher power. It could actually be a combination of all 3, for atheists only combination of 2. I guess everyone is unique and different though, and until you walked a day or life in each others shoes you can't really judge anyone for anything. Got to forgive and accept and love everyone, even the really sick people who have done so many wrong things. Only way we heal humanity as a group, we are a human family and inhabitants of earth not citizens of countries. Electing leaders who are humanitarians would be a good start, but instead we elect celebrities .....
Elect an ex-paramedic or someone who has helped shelter and feed the homeless and watch how different the world becomes.

While it is true that mythology, even if not true, may still wield a great deal of power. It is also true that mythology, even if not true, may still tell us truths about ourselves. The myths we hold up to be admired, tell us about what it is we believe deserves to be admired.

Perhaps, whether God is true or not, the theist is just an atheist who has taken what they feel is best within themselves and projected it up onto the sky. Up there, God is free to behave as they believe they would and should if they were actually God. That is another great power of mythology, the power to show us things about ourselves that we may not otherwise be able to see.

P.S. FYI, no names of political leaders or your posts may end up disappearing. Whole threads have been lost to mythology in the past. That said, without naming names, we don't elect real people to office, we elect myths, and then can't understand why the real person doesn't act like the myth we believed was real.... or maybe we then just bury our heads in the sand and insist they do. Something that also tells us much about ourselves. A theist is first and foremost, a believer in a god, what that god looks like varies greatly.

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[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Godspark

Hmm, maybe it's got nothing to do with beliefs then at all. Because many wars go on in gods name the old "my religion is the only true religion" thing, but also many wars that had nothing to do with religion. People can be bad apples and fall far from the tree, while other apples fall closer and are very good! :)

There’s an old allegory about a baby elephant that is tied to a fence post. As the baby elephant tugs and pulls, it fails to break the fence or break the rope. Eventually, it gives up and makes peace with its fate. The baby elephant is stuck.

But eventually, the elephant grows up and becomes a big, adult elephant with gargantuan legs and a huge tusk and swirly trunk and it could easily walk away from the fence if it wanted to. But believing the fence to be some immovable thing, the adult elephant remains tied to it, falsely believing it can never get away.

Originally Posted by Godspark

Wasn't stereotyping at all, I just never understood what holds a person back from committing such acts of violence or atrocity, besides their own moral judgment or feeling accountable by other people or a higher power. It could actually be a combination of all 3, for atheists only combination of 2. I guess everyone is unique and different though, and until you walked a day or life in each others shoes you can't really judge anyone for anything. Got to forgive and accept and love everyone, even the really sick people who have done so many wrong things. Only way we heal humanity as a group, we are a human family and inhabitants of earth not citizens of countries. Electing leaders who are humanitarians would be a good start, but instead we elect celebrities like Trump or potentially Kanye. Elect an ex-paramedic or someone who has helped shelter and feed the homeless and watch how different the world becomes.

Ask the Catholics why they commited such atrocities across history, or the other religions who are using terrorism and the politicians who care more for their own pockets than the people they are supposed be be caring for. So many people that are supposed to be accountable to both others and a higher power if they have any faith at all. Accountability doesn't seem to mean very much, either that of other people or that higher power. It's never been about atheist vs theist or any religion at all, it's always been about people. Even obeying the higher power comes down to their own moral judgement.


There's nothing stopping a theist going back on their own morals, even if their moral is to obey God so really the theists don't have one over on the atheists. Obeying God and God's rules is a rule just the same as any other. In the context of theism, atheism or any other religion or belief system, human nature is what drives people.

Originally Posted by Dargor

Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hairstyle. Atheists don't believe in ''disbelieve''. They simply accept facts that are scientifically proven to be true while dismissing religious stories that lack evidence as mere myths.

Atheists come in different 'flavours' and there are those that will argue vehemently that there is no God, in the way that a theist might argue vehemently that there is a God. Some like myself have no beliefs at all, although one of the local vicars calls me the "Christian atheist" because I live by some of the things Jesus has said. But that's personal choice and nothing to do with religion or rules-based ethics.

The existence of God can't be proved and the non-existence of God can't be proved either, so the argument doesn't mean very much anyway. What is taken as evidence when there is none is agenda.

The religious stories are often not historically accurate and there is little real evidence to validate them. Jesus was born on the 11th of September according to some Islamists and sometime in April by some Christian scholars who compared the Bible to historic records. God dates back to Zarathustra in his current form and Enlil in his original form, while Enki held the title of Satam. Genesis is a re-write of the Sumerian Enuma Elish. The four Gospels of the New Testament weren't written until quite a few years after the fact and in many instances say something different entirely - often events either differ or weren't mentioned. Some say Jesus wasn't a Christian, some say he was a Nazorean Essene but history has it that he was schooled by the Essene and that comes through in some of his teachings. As for actual historical evidence of Jesus' existence........

Yet theists often dismiss stories that have historic evidence because it doesn't suit their agenda, in order to supplant their own.

Much of what Christianity holds as fact has been debunked and yet Christians still hold it as the "Word of God." If the theists believe thast the religious stories that lack evidence then as far as I'm concerned that's their choice and yes, I do understand what people might gain from inspirational stories. But to hold it as historic fact in an attempt to gain Spiritual/religious high ground?

There's something very fundamental that's being missed here, because the really interesting stuff has nothing to do with "Atheists do this" and "Atheists do that" and "Theists are better because...."