Gautama Siddhartha

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

the question is messed up!

Yes because you personally ' twist ' words around...

[Gem]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

I think that topic fits better under the General Religion section. Probably under a topic of Comparative Religion.

In Buddhism, karma refers to action driven by intention (cetanā) which leads to future consequences. Those intentions are said to be the determining factors in the kind of rebirth in samsara, the cycle of rebirth.

Pretty much, yeah.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

We are not born with sin.
We are perfect and divine. Always and forever.
We can sin though like when we judge others.
When we speak harshly or negatively about others.
When we don't love others as ourselves.
According to Buddhism, ignorance is the cause.
Of not knowing our Buddha or true nature.

I didn't see you say you believed in original sin, and I think this did answer and clarify your view, as did your previous post. Really.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

I didn't see you say you believed in original sin, and I think this did answer and clarify your view, as did your previous post. Really.

If someone thinks is makes sense that we are ' Born with Sin ' is that a belief in ' Original Sin ' or something else, that's what I'm trying to discuss. Really.... and how does it fit in with a belief in Karma....

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sky123

If someone thinks is makes sense that we are ' Born with Sin ' is that a belief in ' Original Sin ' or something else, that's what I'm trying to discuss. Really.... and how does it fit in with a belief in Karma....

There are so many versions of sin mentioned in the Bible, would it be advantageous to first define the various 'sins'?

And remember, 'Original Sin' is not part of the Bible.

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

We are not born with sin

So why did you AbodhiSky say that it makes sense to you that we are all born with sin

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

If someone thinks is makes sense that we are ' Born with Sin ' is that a belief in ' Original Sin ' or something else, that's what I'm trying to discuss. Really.... and how does it fit in with a belief in Karma....

I thought Abodhi was clear saying he or she doesn't believe in born with sin or original sin. "We are not born with sin." and in regards to original sin, "I believe in the complete opposite". Regarding kamma, "Bad karma... is naturally a result of how much we sin or don't act and live in accordance to our true nature". There was further elaboration as well, so question clearly answered. You're welcome.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

I thought Abodhi was clear saying he or she doesn't believe in born with sin

So He must have changed His mind from last week when He said it makes sense that ' We are all born with sin '. We do change how we see things and that's perfectly natural and if clarified makes the discussion easier, and you are also very welcome

Originally Posted by Gem

I didn't see you say you believed in original sin, and I think this did answer and clarify your view, as did your previous post. Really.

Well "Sin" can be conceptualized as a noun, a thing or something we are, a verb, something we do, or an adverb, a quality we have and so claiming someone else believes in "original sin" without defining what they mean by the phrase is just a lot of non-sense anyway.

To me "sin" is usually used as a verb and that's how Buddhism would see it. Not acting (or perceiving) from buddha nature or acting from ignorance or delusion. A clear pure or empty state of being from which action and perception occurs is enlightenment. Now "original sin" is not even the complete phrase and meaning from Christianity. It's the presence of a sinful nature (so that we are prone to sin or sinning or going against our spiritual nature) that originated from Adam which would be a use of the word "sin" as a noun or an adverb. Something one is born with. What we are or a quality of what we are. A very different thing from sin as a verb or something we do.

But separating a state from an action is intellectual non-sense. The two are one motion. One thing. So really that's how it is in reality in Buddhism and Christianity if one is living it and not off in ideas and concepts. One thing. The now involves sin as a noun, if one is identified with conceptualized or delusional ego based knowledge, a verb, if one is acting upon the identification with what is not us, and an adverb as the quality of ego identification is made known through action and perception/experience. If one is wholly following god's will (Christianity) or has realized their buddha nature (Buddhism) sin or ignorance is not present. Action is determined by god's will or one is moved by the holy spirit (Christianity) or our true nature or buddha nature (Buddhism)

Buddhism teaches we have a Buddha nature that we don't know due to ignorance. So we act and perceive in delusion. Through duality, the reactionary mind, ego identification etc. This leads to what is basically sin or wrong view and action. One can look up such things in Buddhism teachings. Are we born knowing our Buddha Nature? Not really. The main philosophical point is probably if someone was realized and enlightened they are no longer being reborn. They have escaped that cycle. So one could say in a way, we are born with an ignorant nature as an ignorant nature is why we are born. We lived our past life with an ignorant nature.

So there is a common thread or idea that goes along with Buddhism in basic Christian ideas. Christians are not born knowing Jesus or god either. They have to be baptized and so forth, take holy communion, all kinds of rituals have developed over history around this idea of changing, being born again, living with spirit or unconditional love. That theme is in Buddhism too though the ways one visualizes moving from one state to the other is different for sure and the contexts and what not, the imagery and symbolism and language all different. But maybe the core or basic truths under all that dogma and mythology and symbolism is exactly the same.

Pure divine spirit enters the human form and it's developing mind. We develop an ego and identify with it as self more and more over time. At some point we may seek to change as we recognize mental suffering and conflict as options and not givens. We desire inner and outer peace and love. We discern these things to be better. So we can seek it though the symbolism and dogma of a religion or seek it on our own. It does not matter as all of it is present in us. Nothing is hidden or somewhere else. Nothing is dependent on language or conceptualization or belief either. Is is pure direct experience and awareness. Everything can be perceived in the here and now in our own experience and perception

None of this is complicated or necessary. It's simple. We don't create what is, but we decide what to focus on in the now. And according to what we focus on, we create a perception and an experience and what we do and say as well.

double post