Intriguing "scientific" study on Mystical Experiences

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Aw, how nice science is catching up.

I too was ecstatic to see this study, as it's about as "scientific" as one can get on this
very challenging topic influenced potentially by so many cultural/personal/subjective factors.

Originally Posted by inavalan

Experiencing "that they extended beyond their body" suggests a perception distorted by their beliefs and expectations, conscious and unconscious, which correlates with their experiencing being dependent on their religious convictions (shouldn't be).

Except it seems to cross religions and it's not something new. What is new is the ability to communicate these experiences across the world and by non-authority figures. It's very organic and its been with us forever.

Another way I might phrase it is it's the personal dropping away (to some degree) to reveal the Impersonal.

https://minds.wisconsin.edu/bitstrea...7? sequence=5

Ultimately, one may become utterly silent inside, as though in a gap between thoughts, where one becomes completely unperceptive, and thought-free. One neither thinks nor perceives any mental or sensory content. Yet, despite this suspension of content, one emerges from such events confident that one had remained awake inside, fully conscious.

This is a state I sometimes encounter in deep effortless meditation, when the timer seemingly goes off just after starting. There is no mind-memory of that period (from mind's perspective it's almost like a blink of the eyes) however there's an undeniable "knowing" of continuity of consciousness. I assume this is not all that unique and experienced by anyone that has enough meditation practice under one's belt.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

im not so keen on it, having found that any time something I'm doing gets accepted by mainline society I get kicked out of the club.
Guess now I've gotta find some other schtick. Sigh.

That is unfortunately the potential downside of a study like this as it provides what I call the "regurgitation group" the verbiage they can use to show how "enlightened" they are.

However, it is my sense that the benefits of such a study outweigh the potential problems.

However, you don't need to "find some other schtick" now that this has gone "mainline" as the report doesn't say much about "locations" past "location 9" so I'm confident that you will still be fine there.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 7 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Busby

An explanation of this collective human experience is what has driven me along in my search for the past decades.
Having experienced a number (16) of varied and impossible to explain moments they, (the experiences), have given me cause to delve deeply into all possible facets of 'the why'.

You are another poster whom I thought would relate well to the content of this thread. Your appearance here does not surprise me.

My life has been similar in many ways to what you wrote about your life.

Starting with my mind-boggling, life-transforming near death experience (NDE), I too have "experienced a number of varied and impossible to explain moments ... (which) have given me cause to delve deeply into all possible facets of 'the why' " ... and also the HOW.

Hopefully, this thread will also attract some skeptics who will be inspired to investigate HOW such "locations" are reachable and the overall WHY for all this as you duly noted.

Thanks for sharing ! The responses thus far have been awesome.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Experiencing "that they extended beyond their body" suggests a perception distorted by their beliefs and expectations, conscious and unconscious, which correlates with their experiencing being dependent on their religious convictions (shouldn't be).

I noticed that JASG has already commented admirably on your post so I won't repeat what is in that post.

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...1&postcount=12

However, I do want to add something personal in response to the specifics in your post. While what you wrote is true in many cases (not all cases), it was definitely NOT what happened to me starting with my mind-boggling, life-transforming near death experience many many years ago. Not only could I see my body from afar at that time but I could also see a vast panorama beyond the realm of the five senses. More specifically, I could see my brother and sister down the hallway and I could describe accurately what they were wearing/doing even thought they never entered the room where my physical body was. In addition, the vision I had during the NDE was completely alien to my religious background ..... and shifted my focus eastward and away from my Roman Catholic upbringing.

In my case, I had not even heard of out-of-body experiences or near death experiences at that time (over 50 years ago) and had virtually no exposure to eastern religions at that time other than that I knew that easterners were not primarily Roman Catholic. My experiences thus were definitely NOT based on "a perception distorted by their beliefs and expectations, conscious and unconscious, which correlates with their experiencing being dependent on their religious convictions".

Your point, however, is valid in many cases (but not all cases). Could you address this specific exception in the context of your post. There are many other exceptions as well but this one will suffice for the time being.

NOTE: That near death experience served as a catalyst to a life-long investigation to determine how one could naturally reach that "location" (using the terminology of the study) again.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

While statistical approach is useful in many scenarios but field of science and principles is not the primary domain of statistics .

So while conducting such study our focus should be how understanding & experiencing intrinsic , core , ultimate , final reality to improve the experience of all the persons involved directly or indirectly.


However unintentional impact of it is that it undermine the value of spirituality as of insignificance for ignorant readers.

You wrote that "Participants dead or live can be selected based on their life works (like books , known acts of nobility /philanthropy / bravery etc) & visualizations." This is true. That is exactly what William James did in his classic "Varieties of Religious Experience". His insights are based on both contemporaries and the "dead' through history books or personal writings. Nowadays, with ADCs (after death communications) being openly discussed in mainstream psychological circles (and now included in the psychiatric DSM manual), communicating directly with the physical dead is another option. However, for purposes of this thread, I will try to limit comments to the living individuals in the study report.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Va...ous_Experience

I agree with you that the statistical approach does have some drawbacks as sampling questions will always arise. This is a valid point but I can't think of a better way in this moment to improve on the sampling methodology in the study.

You wisely mentioned that "our focus should be how understanding & experiencing intrinsic , core , ultimate , final reality to improve the experience of all the persons involved directly or indirectly". Although it is understandably difficult to express in words the "ultimate final reality", I think that the author did quite well in articulating how the experiences improved the lives of all the people involved in his study. As a matter of fact, I am planning to post excerpts of the study on how participants reported improvements in their lives after such experiences. Good point! I'm going there soon !

In responding to another poster, I did note that there are at least some potential drawbacks to posting such a study and that includes the "unintentional impact of it is that it undermine the value of spirituality as of insignificance for ignorant readers", as you duly noted. That is certainly possible among "ignorant readers" but, overall, my sense is that the benefits of such a study outweigh the potential problems with presenting it to "ignorant readers".

Good points.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

but, overall, my sense is that the benefits of such a study outweigh the potential problems with presenting it to "ignorant readers".

Agree completely. My comments are merely based on summary reading and general awareness of studies. Hence my comments may not be exactly applicable here.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Agree completely. My comments are merely based on summary reading and general awareness of studies. Hence my comments may not be exactly applicable here.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

... While what you wrote is true in many cases (not all cases), it was definitely NOT what happened to me starting with my mind-boggling, life-transforming near death experience many many years ago. Not only could I see my body from afar at that time but I could also see a vast panorama beyond the realm of the five senses. ..

Surely, I expressed my opinion.

Doesn't what you described seem similar to what you experience in a dream?

What you see as from afar is like in those dreams when you witness something not-participating directly. It isn't "external" but "inwardly" (from your awake perspective); you aren't using any "external senses", but their inner versions.

I am almost done reading the 24 page pdf you recommended.

So far, my impression is that it is a large data gathering, collected and presented with "scientific objectivity" in mind, about 300+ people who have / had unusual psychic experiences that they give "spiritual" interpretations.

From the document, it seems that most of those cases were heavily influenced by those individuals' beliefs, and I bin them as highly distorted, wishful thinking. The author notes in several instances that what those people claimed (e.g. lack of recollection, ...) wan't backed by what he observed (that those people were recalling alright).

I may change my opinion by the end of reading the document, but as of now I think that the large effort in gathering all that information wasn't justified.

Again, this is my opinion, and you asked for opinions. It isn't an argument.

Your NDE is from a different category of experiences than self-realizations and enlightenment , as those cases seem to be, but (considering only the honest claims) psychic phenomena could have similar characteristics even if they seem different (or alike) to those who experienced them. Practically they're always heavily influenced (distorted) by the subject's beliefs, conscious (that subject's assumptions) and unconscious (that subject's truths).

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 19 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by inavalan

Doesn't what you described seem similar to what you experience in a dream?

What you see as from afar is like in those dreams when you witness something not-participating directly. It isn't "external" but "inwardly" (from your awake perspective); you aren't using any "external senses", but their inner versions.

In my previous post, I specifically mentioned that I could see my brother and sister down the hallway beyond the five senses and could accurately describe what they were wearing/doing even though they never entered the hospital room where my body was. This is VERIFIABLE remote-viewing from a vantage point beyond the physical body.

I also mentioned that the vision I had was so completely alien to my Roman Catholic background that I did not initially understand it.

At least to me, this seems significantly different than a dream. What explanation can you suggest for this happening?

NOTE: Let's address this point first before discussing the rest of your post. (I'm not ignoring the rest of your post.)



https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...0&postcount=15