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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #21  
Old 18-05-2021, 06:13 PM
bobjob bobjob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadguy347
I have terrible anxiety. I don't know why it has flared up again, but it has. Been a really rough two weeks. I am in constant emotional pain.

Everything scares me. The idea that this is all there is is horrifying given all the people who have
I'm simply a layman but have you consulted with a doctor to see if you could get help with your anxieties? If there's a medical cause that could be treated/helped you might then find you're less anxious about the things you've outlined here.
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  #22  
Old 18-05-2021, 06:45 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadguy347
That to me is the best afterlife. You're you, but you don't have to go through things like horrible childhood's school, or make the same mistakes again.

It's not certain that reincarnation is real. Some spiritual traditions say yes, others say no. Some people claim to have past life memories, others not. Some consider dreams to be memories, others not so. Perhaps it's also possible that, assuming reincarnation exists, some of us haven't been here before.

Having to go through the same process over and over again (learning to walk, talk, childhood, growing up, marriage, etc.) sounds like a waste of time. The vast majority of people not having any past life memory doesn't really help either in fortifying the belief, in my honourable opinion. It would mean mass amnesia, and then we'd need a bogus reason to explain the amnesia (''all in the ego, they are'', ''all cursing god, they do'', ''all eating the holy cows, they do'' etc. etc.).

Go back a few centuries in time and almost nobody (outside of East Asia and SE Asia) believed in it. It would have been the norm to interpret ''memories'' as something else, just as today's ''spirit guides'' were ''Biblical angels'' in the past, or ''enlightenment'' perhaps ''the Holy Ghost''. Some may say these are the same, but the implications are definitely different, as is how people interpret their experience and how they imagine the afterlife.
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  #23  
Old 18-05-2021, 08:09 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Go back a few centuries in time and almost nobody (outside of East Asia and SE Asia) believed in it (reincarnation)

This is open to question. For example:

Benjamin Franklin: Thus, finding myself to exist in the world, I believe I shall, in some shape or other, always exist; and, with all the inconveniences human life is liable to, I shall not object to a new edition of mine, hoping, however, that the errata of the last may be corrected.

Henry Ford: I adopted the theory of Reincarnation when I was twenty six. Religion offered nothing to the point. Even work could not give me complete satisfaction. Work is futile if we cannot utilize the experience we collect in one life in the next. When I discovered Reincarnation it was as if I had found a universal plan I realized that there was a chance to work out my ideas. Time was no longer limited. I was no longer a slave to the hands of the clock. ... The discovery of Reincarnation put my mind at ease.

David Lloyd George: The conventional heaven with its angels perpetually singing etc. nearly drove me mad in my youth and made me an atheist for ten years. My opinion is that we shall be reincarnated.

Voltaire: It is no more surprising to be born once than to be born twice: everything in nature is resurrection.

Honore de Balzac: The virtues we acquire, which develop slowly within us, are the invisible links that bind each one of our existences to the others - existences which the spirit alone remembers, for Matter has no memory for spiritual things.

Origen (early Christian theologian): It can be shown that an incorporeal and reasonable being has life in itself independently of the body... then it is beyond a doubt bodies are only of secondary importance and arise from time to time to meet the varying conditions of reasonable creatures. Those who require bodies are clothed with them, and contrariwise, when fallen souls have lifted themselves up to better things their bodies are once more annihilated. They are ever vanishing and ever reappearing.

Pythagoras: Souls never die, but always on quitting one abode pass to another. All things change, nothing perishes. The soul passes hither and thither, occupying now this body, now that... As a wax is stamped with certain figures, then melted, then stamped anew with others, yet it is always the same wax. So, the Soul being always the same, yet wears at different times different forms.

Not to mention Plato, Aristotle and Socrates who also taught the idea of reincarnation. Just a small sample of those outside Asia who believed in reincarnation.

Peace
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  #24  
Old 18-05-2021, 08:23 PM
bobjob bobjob is offline
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It makes no difference to actuality how many have believed - or had had no belief in - reincarnation.

You could cite 'til the cows come home celebrities thoughts or beliefs but not a single one of anyone else's ideas is any more - or any less - valid than one's own.

We can't prove reincarnation occurs and we can't prove it doesn't. What we might claim, however, is that there is evidence that appears to support the notion but no evidence at all that can disprove it.
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  #25  
Old 18-05-2021, 08:27 PM
bobjob bobjob is offline
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Much as it's fun to debate this stuff, it's sadguy's problem that started this thread and it's his problem that's more important than our general debate over reincarnation.

Mind you there's no saying he'll take any notice of anything we say anyway.....
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  #26  
Old 18-05-2021, 08:33 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Yeah, there are people ''of the world'', who learned about other cultures and may have considered the possibility..
But most people would never have heard of the belief. Today, many people have and it's an attractive belief for many.

Actually, it seems as if the idea of rebirth in new bodies was part of the old European pagan traditions, and they would never have heard of Eastern cultures.

Of course, Christianity opposed the idea of reincarnation because it makes their doctrines of salvation redundant. Therefore they suppressed the old traditions.

Peace
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  #27  
Old 18-05-2021, 08:39 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjob
Much as it's fun to debate this stuff, it's sadguy's problem that started this thread and it's his problem that's more important than our general debate over reincarnation.

Agree, but sadguy347's anxiety is all about the question of having to reincarnate in a new physical form and go through childhood etc. It sounds as if he had a difficult time growing up and he does not want to repeat the experience. Therefore he looks for an alternative to having to reincarnate. But next time round he will be a different personality and he or she could have a wonderful childhood.

Peace
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  #28  
Old 18-05-2021, 08:46 PM
Native spirit Native spirit is offline
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That is so true there is no telling what his next incarnation will be it could be the complete opposite to this one.
The only thing to fear is fear itself.



Namaste
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  #29  
Old 18-05-2021, 08:49 PM
bobjob bobjob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Agree, but sadguy347's anxiety is all about the question of having to reincarnate in a new physical form and go through childhood etc. It sounds as if he had a difficult time growing up and he does not want to repeat the experience. Therefore he looks for an alternative to having to reincarnate. But next time round he will be a different personality and he or she could have a wonderful childhood.

Peace

To be fair we don't know the full extent or breadth of what causes his distress and without a fundamental understanding of survival et al he's not likely to follow what others try to tell him about reincarnation.

The reality is that any certainty is only in our own minds.
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  #30  
Old 18-05-2021, 08:54 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Actually, it seems as if the idea of rebirth in new bodies was part of the old European pagan traditions, and they would never have heard of Eastern cultures.Of course, Christianity opposed the idea of reincarnation because it makes their doctrines of salvation redundant. Therefore they suppressed the old traditions.Peace

Outside of Pythagoras and his followers, there isn't much substantial evidence of it being a big part of the old traditions. Pythagoras' gang was also just one tradition within the larger Greek religious context. Belief in reincarnation wasn't exactly the norm.
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