Was the condemnation of man justified?

Was the condemnation of man justified?

If not justified, Jesus was not required to ask us to do evil by accepting human sacrifice.

I do not recall any of my many sins ever being bad enough to earn condemnation.

Every sin I, and likely you, ever made, has been forgiven.

For god to condemn me, and most of you, would be unjust.

I am innocent. Are you?

Regards
DL

[sky]

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

Was the condemnation of man justified?

If not justified, Jesus was not required to ask us to do evil by accepting human sacrifice.

I do not recall any of my many sins ever being bad enough to earn condemnation.

Every sin I, and likely you, ever made, has been forgiven.

For god to condemn me, and most of you, would be unjust.

I am innocent. Are you?

Regards
DL

Who said Man is condemned ?

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

Was the condemnation of man justified?

If not justified, Jesus was not required to ask us to do evil by accepting human sacrifice.

I do not recall any of my many sins ever being bad enough to earn condemnation.

Every sin I, and likely you, ever made, has been forgiven.

For god to condemn me, and most of you, would be unjust.

I am innocent. Are you?

Regards
DL

Nope you are not innocent.

This is not nec. for you. As, you do not think. But for others.
Adam was the mediator between Spirit and Earth.
Between Heaven and the material. Similar to the risen Christ.
Like Him, Adam was more of the angelic situstion, possibly without blood, like the ascended Christ.

You, since the fall, are of the organic, in time and space on the other hand.
There was no time evident in the Garden, or "Paradise".
Like every other lifeform on the planet, you are the evolved, organic, animal/mammal.
Over millions of years.
Replete with your inherent survival instinct which has resulted in untold misery on the planet.
Which is also why satan is referred to as the "god of this world", in scripture.

But, all of time can't compare with the timeless and eternity.
Neither is it likely we can understand the original earth.

This is our lot since the Fall. We are born into sin.

So, no... you are not sinless, or innocent.
However, God has taken care of your situation through Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

You just have to understand, be grateful, and repent.

Originally Posted by sky123

Who said Man is condemned ?

Christian tradition and dogma that says that if we are not condemned, then we do not need a Jesus to save us.

Think Original Sin.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Nope you are not innocent.

This is not nec. for you. As, you do not think. But for others.
Adam was the mediator between Spirit and Earth.
Between Heaven and the material. Similar to the risen Christ.
Like Him, Adam was more of the angelic situstion, possibly without blood, like the ascended Christ.

You, since the fall, are of the organic, in time and space.
There was no time evident in the Garden, or "Paradise".
Like every other lifeform on the planet, you are the evolved, organic, animal/mammal.
Over millions of years.
But, all of time can't compare with the timeless and eternity.
Neither is it likely we can understand the original earth.

This is our lot since the Fall. We are born into sin.

So, no... you are not sinless, or innocent.
However, God has taken care of your situation through Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

You just have to understand, be grateful, and repent.

I take it you feel you are guilty and need to ride your scapegoat Jesus into heaven.

What sin earned your condemnation to hell?

Why do you think that punishing the innocent instead of yourself is good justice?

Would you want our courts to work with that justice?

Regards
DL

[BigJohn]

INTERESTING!

Soul Seeker's post count is 666.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

Christian tradition and dogma that says that if we are not condemned, then we do not need a Jesus to save us.

Think Original Sin.

Regards
DL

Not all Christians believe in ' Original Sin ' nor do they believe that they need Jesus to save them. Times are changing and ' Mindsets' are evolving.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Regarding the "Scapegoat".
Leviticus chapter 16.
*deleted*

Would you call Pope Benedict a ' Farce ' ? He doesn't believe in Original Sin.
Then we have Pope Francis who surprised the world and said that the Bible is totally out of date and needs radical change.

We can’t keep trying to speak to our audience in a whole new world with an old book thats thousands of years old. We are losing disciples and need to try to modernize the church, rewrite the Word of God, even if it is only the OT in which there are certain passages that it is better not to repeat .

Is He also a ' Farce ' ?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

Was the condemnation of man justified?

If not justified, Jesus was not required to ask us to do evil by accepting human sacrifice.

Wasn't that the plan all along?

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

I am innocent. Are you?

No, I'm bad.

Originally Posted by sky123

Would you call Pope Benedict a ' Farce ' ? He doesn't believe in Original Sin.
Then we have Pope Francis who surprised the world and said that the Bible is totally out of date and needs radical change.

We can’t keep trying to speak to our audience in a whole new world with an old book thats thousands of years old. We are losing disciples and need to try to modernize the church, rewrite the Word of God, even if it is only the OT in which there are certain passages that it is better not to repeat .

Is He also a ' Farce ' ?

I've heard from various places now, that the churches are emptying precisely because they are modernizing, whereas more 'hard' churches that place authority in the Bible, like evangelical ones and also Orthodox churches, have grown more popular over the decades.

If the churches just become a place for secular values then they will become obsolete. The strength of Christianity has always been to place itself outside of the secular, to offer something that kings/princes/government cannot.

Pope Francis' popularity is mostly to be found among non-Christians. A Catholic pastor once told me this also, that his following was in big part to be found outside the church.

[davidmartin]

I heard a Rabbi explain how original sin has a more problematic doctrine behind it - the depravity of the soul (that every human soul is depraved at birth and worthy of eternal punishment). So the question isn't even about sins we do, since the depravity doctrine applies at the moment of birth. This is the T in Calvinism's TULIP

The Rabbi went on that in Judaism the soul is considered a perfect work of God, that then may get surrounded by a layer of sin. Christianity still works with this view