The Inner Guru and the SatGuru

Originally Posted by BlueElephant

why would anyone in their right mind want to be a Guru? Answer: No one ! If someone does want to be a Guru - then they already do not have qualification to be one. If they go ahead and self-appoint - then watch out for a fall.

I imagine it as quite the sacrifice/service..

Namaste,
JL

[peteyzen]

A true Guru, one who is really self realised or god realised (and there are precious few who are) is a gift, a great and wonderful thing to find in this life. That said, beyond the guru is the avatar and the wise man, on the path of the divine is safest following an Avatar`s guidance if you come across one. There are some alive now, with whome you can connect.
Some few people are strong enough and humble enough and determined enough to take themselves a long way spiritually, but most and I mean 99% are not strong enough, they need help.
To many on here the idea of surrendering to a guru is ridiculous, to let them be responsible for guiding you seems a stupid idea. But spiritual growth is about surrender and the human ego will fight you all the way, and it is clever. It shape shifts and fights you emotionally, physically, and mentally. My suggestion, the smart person gets help from broader shoulders than their own.
Blueelephant asked above `why would anyone want to be a guru` The truth is, the ones that are not really there, want money or recognition or kudos. But the ones who have achieved realisation and control over their egos, do it because they know that they are you! And when you are ready and have reached a point where you can receive their teachings, like a father to a son , from compassion, they are compelled to teach.

[BlueElephant]

Yes, quite a sacrifice, but obviously a sacrifice of love.

Hi peteyzen. Kindly inform us of the Avatars that are here now. This would be a great service to humanity, yes?

[peteyzen]

The most accessible Avatar at the moment, is Mother Meera

Originally Posted by peteyzen

Some few people are strong enough and humble enough and determined enough to take themselves a long way spiritually, but most and I mean 99% are not strong enough, they need help.

To many on here the idea of surrendering to a guru is ridiculous, to let them be responsible for guiding you seems a stupid idea.

But spiritual growth is about surrender and the human ego will fight you all the way, and it is clever. It shape shifts and fights you emotionally, physically, and mentally. My suggestion, the smart person gets help from broader shoulders than their own.

Yes, independence masking insecurity?

JL

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by BlueElephant

As you say Joe - the Traditions are paths to realizing the inconceivable - from there on it is a smile from Gurudev of the recognition. This recognition though is about the further exploration that is done by the disciple on one's own afterwards (is there an afterwards - LOL), that keeps going.

Yes the guru can start a fire, so to speak, thinking this morning that we don't always get the guru's involvement when something significant happens, a spiritual realisation. It can seem detached from a teacher or the teacher, and in some ways it is but it was probably their grace that played a significant part in bringing the seeker to this realisation. As you say the recognition or essence or as the Lamas say, the nature of mind, I like the word knowledge at the moment.

Originally Posted by BlueElephant

What I like about older Traditions is that there is more guidence and specific guidence to reach the True Realization and beyond, whereas the Neo-Advaita does not have this precious information, nor do they believe it exists, nor understand it, nor pay it much matter - with exceptions of course, but few exceptions.

Yes I'm with you on this one and it has caused me some grief trying to work it out Their Helter Skelter approach or seemingly so can seem disingenuous at times. One Teacher in particular likes to quote the Zen Master Huang Po. The Teacher in question is a great fellow though and a really nice guy but what he never says is that Huang Po wore his meditation cushion out before he came to these non dualistic conclusions. I suppose there is much ambiguity going on, around terms etc.

Originally Posted by BlueElephant

Yes, I agree that life is - in a way of perception - all sacrifice - love giving into love - that makes a bigger love - it is a dialectic which of course leads to entrance into the inconceivable - once there it ever continues. and Real it is. of course more real than the dream-like fabric of existence that we normally experience.

Namaste

Originally Posted by BlueElephant

I am glad to meet you Joe. I feel your deep sincerity and depth (and others here) and so am very glad. And I think this subject especially can bring this out in us.

One point you all might find interesting: The Inner Guru is awakened by the outer Guru. However, as with all things there are exceptions - as few as they may be. i.e that one has awakened one's Transcendent inner Guru with out the powerful ignition from the outer Guru.

A human being that has the role of Guru is not taken by the individual - why would anyone in their right mind want to be a Guru? Answer: No one ! If someone does want to be a Guru - then they already do not have qualification to be one. If they go ahead and self-appoint - then watch out for a fall.

Your contribution to this broad topic of the Guru has been very valuable and insightful to me and others I'm sure. Thanks for sharing and it is likewise great to meet you. When I said that self realisation can appear anywhere at anytime ..and that we don't always see the part that the Guru played ..could this be related to what you just said there ? That meeting the outer Guru if you like can spark a realisation which is indelible and can lead the devotee into as you so rightly call it 'The Inconceivable'. And also true why someone is born into the role of a Guru. Thanks once again. Joe.

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[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by janielee

*deep applause*

Namaste,
JL

Takes a bow and applauds Janielee in turn, it's your turn to take the spotlight, hope that microphone is working !!

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[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by peteyzen

A true Guru, one who is really self realised or god realised (and there are precious few who are) is a gift, a great and wonderful thing to find in this life. That said, beyond the guru is the avatar and the wise man, on the path of the divine is safest following an Avatar`s guidance if you come across one. There are some alive now, with whome you can connect.
Some few people are strong enough and humble enough and determined enough to take themselves a long way spiritually, but most and I mean 99% are not strong enough, they need help.
To many on here the idea of surrendering to a guru is ridiculous, to let them be responsible for guiding you seems a stupid idea. But spiritual growth is about surrender and the human ego will fight you all the way, and it is clever. It shape shifts and fights you emotionally, physically, and mentally. My suggestion, the smart person gets help from broader shoulders than their own.
Blueelephant asked above `why would anyone want to be a guru` The truth is, the ones that are not really there, want money or recognition or kudos. But the ones who have achieved realisation and control over their egos, do it because they know that they are you! And when you are ready and have reached a point where you can receive their teachings, like a father to a son , from compassion, they are compelled to teach.

Hi Pete, good advice, nice to see you.

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[peteyzen]

Hi Joe, nice to see you too.

[Jyotir]

Hi Joe,

I recommend the following texts as a good contemporary resources
on the subject in question; other texts at the same site as well.

The Master and the Disciple, by Sri Chinmoy

Another book that may touch on some of your concerns is

The Difference Between a False Master and a True Master also by Chinmoy


(as an aside, there are thousands of excellent poems and aphorisms within various texts on that same site, which I encourage you to peruse: Dance of Life, Wings of Light, 27,000 Aspiration Plants, 10,000 Flower Flames, 77,000 Service Trees, etc.)


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I would also recommend reading Sri Aurobindo’s “Essays on the Gita”, in particular chapters that have the word “Avatar” in them (4?)

As well, within Sri Aurobindo’s “Letters on Yoga”, any topic dealing with the guru or guru/disciple as principle or in practice. You can open the texts and search the table of contents, or see my discussion on these 4 volumes in the Book Forum of this (SF) site, where I have given a listing of topics covered in each of the volumes.

For the Sri Aurobindo, you can access any text for free at the site in my signature.

Hope this is helpful.

~ J