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13-08-2020, 10:49 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
It’s not One OR many, it’s One AS many. Coming to see this Oneness in the midst of its creative origination IS the no-separation realisation.
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That is the 'Eagle/Thunderbird' given vision – when one’s awareness shifts to the ‘World Pole’. And one realizes the Greatest Love of All.
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14-08-2020, 02:42 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 11,025
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To quote from Swami Lakshmanjoo’s writing on Abhinavagupta:
“Abhinavagupta says that Krama deals with space and time. He explains that actually there is no space. When one deals with forms, the space appears. When one is established in formless state of being, for him there is no space. In the same way when there is something to be done, then only the existence of time shines and when you have nothing to do, then time has no existence.
Explaining the Spanda system, Abhinavagupta says that it is that movement which actually is no movement. Spanda makes us realise that whatever is in movement actually is established in unmoved point. So although everyting seems moving actually it is not moving at all.
Science of Totality:
As for the Kula system, he says that Kula means the Science of Totality. In each and every part of the universe totality shines - throughout. Take a small part of any object. In that part you will see the universal energy existing.
The Pratyabijnya system deals with the school of recognition. Abhinavagupta, while explaining this school of recognition, says;
‘To make it clear, at the time of God-realization nothing new is realised; on the contrary, the Yogi feels that this state of God-consciousness which he was experiencing was already known to him.’
In this school of recognition, Abhinavagupta says, the state of God- consciousness is already there. He comes to the conclusion that in this universe you have to see and realise the Kingdom of God- consciousness only everywhere and nothing else.”
__________________
The Self has no attribute
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14-08-2020, 07:32 AM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes of course. What I am wondering about is why it has to manifest as the the many. Why is it not possible for it to manifest as Oneness DIRECTLY, and not bother with appearing as the illusion of the many at all? It seems that the reason could be that it cant because the appearance of Oneness directly would be no manifstation at all as no contrast.
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Is this why Masters like Niz say that there is nothing but the dream? What does he know that results in him making statements like that?
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14-08-2020, 07:57 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,260
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The dream of separateness is but a dream we dream when we are asleep.
‘Oneness’ is also a dream – in a way – except we go lucid in it i.e. we awake within a dream.
That’s how I see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNd7sgU60vQ
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15-08-2020, 04:50 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,308
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illusion of two
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Can Oneness only manifest as an ilusion Of Two? If so why? I would be intested in responses to that question.
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Illusion needs to be understood in relative terms. It has to be viewed in view of longevity , pervasiveness and effectiveness. Personally I prefer the word short-lived ,ephemeral , temporary, scope of effectiveness etc. Underlying oneness is the only thing common in time and space and all forms/shape disappear in time and space.
There will be illusion of two when there is not realization of above due to
1. ignorance of above fact
2. limited span of attention-memory
3. inability and thereby unwillingness to overcome the lure /attractiveness of various forms/shapes experience.
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16-08-2020, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
But duality implies a third element - the relationship between the two aspects of duality. So Oneness manifests as a triplicity.
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Close but no cigar
The pre-Taoist alchemists called it Triplex Unity. It appears in Christianity as the fish symbol, it appears in ancient Egypt as part of the Eye of Ra and it appears in Ireland as the trefoil. Draw a circle on paper with another beside it. That's duality vs non-duality, Oneness vs Maya...... Draw another two circles but one above the other and intersecting. See? It's called the Vesica Pisces and forms the basis for the Buddhist Egg and Flower of Life. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. You can visualise the two circles as our 'spheres of consciousness' overlapping as you read this, and it's in the overlap that the understanding comes. It doesn't matter what you think of this post, there's an interaction of consciousness going on just the same. That simply can't happen in Oneness. But then, everything exists in relation to something else - Oneness doesn't exist without Maya. If there is no Maya then Oneness is meaningless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
"When the self advances, the ten thousand things retreat. When the self retreats, the ten thousand things advance."
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A simple shift in perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Tao produced the One.
The One produced the two.
The two produced the three.
And the three produced the ten thousand things.
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Any number of cultures say something similar, that it's a division/aspect of One but the understanding is that the One creates the many that creates the One, linear thinking is the barrier here and when you think relationships and 'feedback loops' it all makes sense. Those ten thousand things also created the concept of Oneness, God, the drops and the ocean.....
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16-08-2020, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legrand
Enjoying each moment of this illusion until I find the answer to that question.
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This illusion is the environment in which you consider yourself to be a single being who is Spiritual - both of which is a 'product' of the illusion. The concept that it is an illusion is also a product of the illusion. And by the way, you are the answer looking for the question and only the right question gives you the right answer.
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16-08-2020, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
This illusion is the environment in which you consider yourself to be a single being who is Spiritual - both of which is a 'product' of the illusion. The concept that it is an illusion is also a product of the illusion. And by the way, you are the answer looking for the question and only the right question gives you the right answer.
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Thank you for your comment Greenslade
A what if there is no more questions?
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16-08-2020, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legrand
Thank you for your comment Greenslade
A what if there is no more questions?
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Questions are the driving force and only ego has all the answers. When there is just what IS then......
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16-08-2020, 10:30 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
You can visualise the two circles as our 'spheres of consciousness' overlapping as you read this, and it's in the overlap that the understanding comes.
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On the horizontal line (overcoming horizontal dualities) our energy fields also do overlap and one can tell a lot about the ‘other’ person by listening in on this overlap.
A sweet story about the overlap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5HcLFyPkYs
When one experiences ‘oneness’ with another – not sure what happens … I call it the first step on the vertical which is a spatial awareness perspective of witnessing, of seeing through both of you, yet it is neither …. It is as if “seeing everything now from the perspective of space”, (both are simultaneously attuned to).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
To quote from Swami Lakshmanjoo’s writing on Abhinavagupta:
“Abhinavagupta says that Krama deals with space and time. He explains that actually there is no space. When one deals with forms, the space appears. When one is established in formless state of being, for him there is no space. In the same way when there is something to be done, then only the existence of time shines and when you have nothing to do, then time has no existence.
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Yet - ‘seeing from the perspective of space’ gives one the closest description of awareness, that is spheric (vs linear/dual consciousness), where in that “seeing” (transparency) - question and answer arise simultaneously and where the centre of that awareness – ‘the Holy World Mountain’ or the ‘Eagle Eye’ is everywhere.
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