How would you define a person?

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by JustBe

A lot of masters here lol, including yourself..😉

I might be good but I'm no Master. Lol!

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

Start small and practice, practice, practice.

Originally Posted by Gem

...but I think it's closer to the truth to say people can take only so much, and when that threshold is surpassed, we resist, avoid and lose control of ourselves. By becoming conscious of 'what we're doing' we can improve our ability for quiet equanimity - and the more you can take without losing the plot the better.

Yes, over years of practice we slowly let go of much of our habitual resistance, our tendency to want things to be a certain way.

However we each have a threshold, beyond which we cannot maintain our detached equanimity.
We may not know exactly where that threshold is, and many of us are fortunate in that this threshold may never be crossed during our incarnation.

But we only have to look at world events and see people who have lost everything and are in pain on many levels.
And I have to be honest and admit that if I were in their position then it would be very difficult to maintain any kind of equanimity.

We may say that all things will pass, the destruction of form is of no consequence, it is our choice whether or not to suffer. Which may all be true.
We can all understand the philosophy but the direct experience of such events is surely devastating for those caught up in it.

So yes, there is obvious value in letting go of our resistance to whatever is. I myself have said this more than once.
But to say that all suffering is self-inflicted suggests a choice which is beyond most people.

Peace

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

You’re right on this. I don’t think there are any shortcuts into non reactiveness, until you build some kind of inner balance and equanimity. You can be aware of yourself reacting each and every time, but if the charge or fire ripples through all of you in this way, it can be difficult until you cool down those affects. You can tell yourself, I’m not going to react, once aware, but unless you have some kind of tool in place to stop and pause, reflect, it can be challenging while there’s unresolved trauma or emotional baggage lingering.

True. My theory is, if you are the one who is aware of the one who is reacting, then you are not the one who is reacting, and if you aren't reacting, there's no reaction. It's just that we think the one who is reacting is 'me', but if you think about it, reactions are psychological and you are not your thoughts.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Maisy

To me it's strange to say "watch your breath," because why? Why watch it? What's the point of that or the goal? Because it means one is not watching thoughts if one is focusing on the breath? But watching the breath is a thought. One is thinking "I need to watch my breath."

Essentially, the breath is observed by feeling the sensation. When the mind wanders off, it goes to the past, future and all around, but because you intend to observe breath, when you notice you've drifted away, you remember - observe breath.

Besides being an anchor in real lived experience, the main reason for breath observation is to try feel the most subtle nuances of the sensation as you can to hone the perceptive sensitivity of the mind.

The underlying objective is weird because it's 'stop and look', and it means you stop doing all the things and 'just observe'. It doesn't seem apparent right away, but in hindsight you realise that stopping brings cessation to the reactive tendency, or in Buddha-speak, the cessation of karma (AKA volition).

The argument is, if you intend to observe breath, that's volitional, but because you 'just observe' it 'as it is' and exert no will to make it 'as I want it to be', acceptance or non-resistance is the effect. This superficially activates the purification and fundamentally undermines ego. It's just that you don't make any of that happen.

A few reasons aside, Breath is used to hone the mind into a sensitive perceptive instrument which is probably necessary for the next stage of body awareness.

[Honza]

I find it sad that we have to go to such lengths to practice discipline. Reality should not be so hard in the first place.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Honza

I find it sad that we have to go to such lengths to practice discipline. Reality should not be so hard in the first place.

I look at it more like practicing truthfulness both internally and externally, and it's basically becoming conscious of what you never used to be conscious of and having delusions upturned by insight.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by iamthat

But to say that all suffering is self-inflicted suggests a choice which is beyond most people.

Suffering is simply a reaction when what is isn't what we want it to be.

[ReturningMoon]

Originally Posted by Honza

What is a 'person'? There are many people who would not call God a person. Is being a person superfluous to spirituality? Certainly it seems the case that people are unimportant in the grand scheme of things, because they die like flies.

It's tough to say. You have a temporal self and an eternal self. The wisdom is usually found in the eternal self though.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Honza

I find it sad that we have to go to such lengths to practice discipline.

Absolutely love this answer Honza. I agree. My sadness as well. You hit the nail on the head but it is not difficult but is a choice. Every person makes their choice. But the question is, is it suppose to be felt, simply being knowledge because what is felt is that knowledge. Is it knowledge, nothing more. The answer already within especially when we say we are returning to our true nature. That means as soul it is already known. As Gem said, it is about being truthful. Simply be at peace with truth. We already consciously know and sadness, is knowing. The idea sadness is only a reaction fails to see it is also an answer imo. These are things we are suppose to know and already do.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Honza

I find it sad that we have to go to such lengths to practice discipline. Reality should not be so hard in the first place.

I think it is ultimately pretty simple. We are designed to seek peace and happiness. I guess the difficult part is our bodies and brains and minds, and the environment we are placed in, is deigned to make us unhappy and not at peace.

It's like you come home from a hard day at work then your partner says, lets go to a party. And you're like, yea no thanks I'm going to grab a snack and watch a movie on tv. Then they are like, NO I've been sitting in the house all day. WE ARE GOING OUT. Conflict with others. Well live alone! Well then we are designed to thrive and need others to be happy. So that doesn't work so well either.

Maybe at some point we find the only way I am going to be happy, since I've realized I don't have a lot of control over what happens, is to stop caring about what is happening. Be detached. I call it divine not caring. It's not a negative kind of not caring or a reactionary not caring, it's simply being happy no matter what is happening. Not caring about what is happening. But at the same time one moves in a way to be happy, like do things we enjoy, but let go of what makes us unhappy, like mind, thoughts, thinking, analyzing, having an expectation or desire. But then desire is there for happiness and peace. But it's just higher understanding. Like I can love donuts. Want a donut today. And at the same time, don't care if I get one or not. Two things can be true at the same time. I can pursue a life and things that make me happy and at the same time be detached from certain mind stuff like desire. How?

I think we have two minds myself or two minds exist. The body/brain mind and the mind of soul or myself. That's why two things can be true at the same time. Desiring happiness and peace while being detached from mind and thoughts. We can be detached from the body mind but not our own soul mind, or ourselves. Most people are aware of having conflicting desires. Like wanting to lose weight while wanting to eat sugary foods. It's brain verses soul. Who wins this tug of war? That's one point of incarnating. To see what dominates. Soul mind or body mind. And it's not a sign of how "spiritual" we are or how advanced who wins. Because sometimes souls put very little "soul energy" into a body for a bigger challenge. Then they may fail and be like, ok I was over confident.