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15-04-2022, 09:23 PM
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Why was John 3:4 altered so significantly?
In KJV, Nicodemus asked an explict question. Yet, in NIV Nicodemus' question has been changed into a declaration:
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!
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15-04-2022, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tedmil
In KJV, Nicodemus asked an explict question. Yet, in NIV Nicodemus' question has been changed into a declaration:
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!
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No significant difference at all unless one believes the words must be exactly the same…… |
15-04-2022, 10:57 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,179
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Tedmil,
your answer probably can be answered in how a question was construed in Koine Greek.
By the way, how did you come to that conclusion?
__________________
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Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
Last edited by BigJohn : 16-04-2022 at 12:26 AM.
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16-04-2022, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Molearner
No significant difference at all unless one believes the words must be exactly the same……
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Both version are answered with an affirmation, so an explicit question vs a statement changes the context completely. |
16-04-2022, 12:49 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,179
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How did you discern a question in Koine Greek?
__________________
⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
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16-04-2022, 01:35 AM
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The whole "bible" has been changed so much its unreliable now........
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16-04-2022, 01:42 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,179
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If so, then what was changed in John 3:4 in the Koine Greek: the source, hopefully for both translations?
By the way, when you translate the English question mark back in to Koine Greek, what do you get?
That is the 'problem'.
__________________
⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
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16-04-2022, 02:26 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tedmil
In KJV, Nicodemus asked an explict question. Yet, in NIV Nicodemus' question has been changed into a declaration:
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!
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If I remember correctly Ms Hepburn posted this chart: https://faithfoundedonfact.com/wp-co..._1024x1024.png So, KJV is more word-for-word; NIV is more thought-for-thought so it is more interpreted by the translator.
In Greek: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/3-4.htm
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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16-04-2022, 02:44 AM
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 25,134
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by inavalan
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Now that chart is a keeper.
I never saw it!!
__________________
.*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)
Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.
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16-04-2022, 03:06 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
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Usually the "Pulpit Commentary" makes the most sense to me: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/3-4.htm
In my interpretation, JC was talking about a spiritual re-birth needed to be able to do those miracles, but Nicodemus misunderstood the metaphor. Then JC explained more.
The question formulation is more polite , so it is more likely with the spirit of the story.
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EDIT after reading the context:
John 3:1 says that Nicodemus was a Pharisee, a ruler of Jews, so he might have actually challenged JC, and he was brazen. From this perspective, the affirmation seems more likely.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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