The Eightfold Path - The Fourth Noble Truth

[sky]

The act of taking refuge can be seen as an expression of 'Right View'/
'Right aspiration'.
The vocal act of taking refuge can be seen as 'Right Speech'.
Choosing to take Refuge can be seen as 'Right Action'.
When I think deeply about 'Taking Refuge' I can fit it entirely into the Eightfold Path.
Just my personal thoughts

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky

It certainly is a catalyst, why practise something you have no trust in , I personally wouldn't waste my time and effort .

I'm going to look on e-bay tomorrow for a new Raft, mine is on the verge of sinking and I still need one

Just take a few moments and master the art of walking on water. Then you won't need any raft whatsoever.

[Miss Hepburn]

Goodbye, ImthatIm.
We all give you our best wishes that your health gets better.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Just take a few moments and master the art of walking on water. Then you won't need any raft whatsoever.

Oh I can walk on water, puddles.....

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky

Oh I can walk on water, puddles.....

As Taoists say, a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Walking on puddles is a start.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Gem

(which is really stop reacting)

I think reacting is pretty nuanced too. I think there are different levels to it. The entire eightfold path can be applied to it, right view/understanding, right resolve, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right samadhi.

One example is about how in rebirth an entity joins up with a human body. While in a "rebirth" we experience what the body does. The human body is designed to react in many ways. For self protection, self defense, even ego defending, things like pride and self esteem and self importance etc. A lot of that starts out as subconscious reaction/thought which then is presented to conscious awareness which is usually accepted as self. Even if not accepted as self, we experience what the body presents to us so the feelings and reactions still take place and we experience them.

So in that example it's about discernment, right conduct. If some relationships and activities cause negative reactions, we can avoid those encounters or activities. So in this case, it is not about not reacting, it's about understanding what leads the body and mind to react and no longer being in those situations or sensory influences.

Another example would be our own thinking patterns and ideas. These can be reactions to sensory environments we don't have a lot of control over. Karmic situations and realities. So those we don't have the option to just avoid or cut out of our lives. So there not reacting has to do with things like non-attachment and open mindedness. But then even higher would be right mindfulness, and right samadhi in those situations. In deep states of detachment and higher consciousness, the mind does not react because no thinking is taking place. One is basically ignoring sensory perception and thought which is different from not reacting by understanding sensory triggers and cutting them out of our lives by choice.

I think a lot of it is about avoiding negative energies within and without as well. I think it's not that we stop reacting, we either stop doing things or being in situations that lead to reacting using discernment and right understanding and right conduct, this would include discarding or dropping ideas that create "reacting" or we attain or maintain higher states of consciousness where we take our attention off of our thoughts. Both lead to not experiencing reacting.

[sky]

Thankfully I 'Reacted' when I nearly forgot to close a downstairs window before leaving the house. Obviously It's not about never reacting, it's being aware of how and why you react that's important. Imo.

[Maisy]

Observing Unwanted or Negative Effect
Discovering Cause or Source
Right Understanding or Wisdom

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think reacting is pretty nuanced too.

It is a nuanced area, and the whole topic is incredibly refined, but I just talk about reactivity as that which disturbs equanimity. It's the reactivity they call 'craving'. Hence they say meditation is 'Free from craving (aversion and desire) in the world', and I think meditators would know how reactivity disturbs or interrupts their meditations and disrupts their peace of mind.

In the body I like to classify response as reflex so as not to conflate that with psychological reactivity. The body is producing feelings all the time, and one can't do anything about that, but you can cease to react to these feelings. However, we tend to find when discomfort becomes quite extreme we reach a limit and start becoming overwhelmed and reactive, and when pleasure becomes a bit too ecstatic we tend to find it's as much as we can bear and start to react and lose the poise.

The philosophy explains that 'from feelings craving arises' (dependent origins), and the point at which 'the cycle' is broken is at the feelings. The feelings are there as a fact, but the psychological reactivity is being fabricated, and in meditation one has to discern what is 'just happening' from mental fabrications. The meditation which involves that 'right samadhi' isn't ignoring sensations. It's being deliberately aware of the feelings of the body, as they emphatically say feelings (vedana) is the object of meditation. They say the thoughts are objects too, but in that 'craving' pertains to the feelings, as one meditates on the feelings they will automatically become aware of the shenanigans of their mind...

In the early stages of breath awareness, you can't feel much because the mind is a bit dull and perception isn't very sharp. It's actually pretty hard to feel the breath and you really have to focus, but over a couple of months you can feel it more easily because the mind has been honed and the perception made sharper. You notice that when you become deep minded the breath becomes extremely slight and hardly moves at all, which makes it really hard to feel, and in this way, the feeling of the breath provides an extraordinarily subtle object to work with.

I don't know where I was going with that... but the main point is the feeling. This becomes confused in the religion because people tend to fixate on 'I know I breathe long, I know I breathe short', but it's more like knowing everything - long, short, deep, shallow, faster or slower, which nostril the air favours, and overall, precisely what it really feels like.

My brain is so complex I have too much to say,

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

In the early stages of breath awareness, you can't feel much because the mind is a bit dull and perception isn't very sharp. It's actually pretty hard to feel the breath and you really have to focus, but over a couple of months you can feel it more easily because the mind has been honed and the perception made sharper.

Some but not all find it hard to feel the breath, everyone is different.
If you practise ' Mindfulness ' constantly and not just when your on a retreat feeling the breath come naturally, it becomes part of life. Long or short deep or shallow is just the same, being aware of breathing actually does not need Meditation although some may find it easier during Meditation. I personally don't think its 'hard'. As long as we're alive we breathe, not just during Meditation...