Struggling With Belief

[tripthicket]

I stumbled upon (was led to?) this site not too long ago, and have been reading many of the thread and posts in many different categories. As the days went by, I found that I seemed to be looking for something, and it took me a little pondering to decide what it might be. I decided to start this discussion in the hopes that I might get some perspective from 'novice' and 'expert' alike.

I was first introduced to Christianity at the age of 12. Within minutes of talking to him, with only a very general and minute knowledge on my part of what religion was all about, this Baptist preacher urged me into accepting Jesus Christ. I was saved. By one definition, I suppose I still am. I have not 'walked the walk,' as they say, save for a period in my early 20s when I fell in with a youth group and attended church for a 6 or 8-month period, and nothing since. Full disclosure: the above incidences were in 1972 and 1981-82, respectively.

So, I believe in God, but apparently not enough to let that belief be any real part of my life. Some may say that's a rejection of God; if so, I don't do so consciously or deliberately, and certainly rancor doesn't enter the picture. At times, I've thought I believed in a Higher Power that existed instead of God, although I've never thrashed that out to a concrete stance. Certainly I don't reject the idea of Spirituality, of beings greater than ourselves. I do believe that there is more than what our 5 senses and Science can show us, but I've never actively sought it out. If it hasn't seemed to make a difference in my life, then why keep worrying and wondering about it from time to time?

I used the word Spirituality above, instead of Religion, and deliberately so. I believe they are 2 different things, that religious dogma has been used to control people throughout history, that that dogma is a direct product of Men twisting and perverting Spirituality. If someone wanted to argue that point with me, however, I'd fold like a lawn chair, as I don't have such an argument to support my belief. It's a vague viewpoint I hold as someone who's never seen the need to have any religious aspect included in his life.

I still don't, and I say all that to give you an idea of where I'm coming from. But there's more, he said!

If I was aware of God before the age of 12 (and I was, but only vaguely; my parents didn't go to church), I was also aware of 'worlds beyond,' if only because of pop culture mentions. Ghosts, witches, reincarnation, alternate religions (Buddhism, Wicca, etc.), Ouija boards and Tarot cards, you get the idea. Not intending to belittle them in any way, just showing that I was aware of some of them without really knowing anything about any of them. Then came the great surge of interest in the mid-80s, when everyone suddenly became interested in all things New Age.

My uncle passed in 1982, my mother's only blood sibling. I had already moved away from home several years ago, so didn't become aware of the changes it made in her and my youngest brother, still living at home. They were introduced to Astrology, Tarot divination, Numerology, and other aspects, partly as a way for Mom to 'keep in touch' with her deceased brother. I think I was aware of it somewhat, but my own interest only sharpened after the New Age 'fad' gripped the country, maybe '86 or '87 (for me).

I visited a medium a couple times, once for a channeling of my spirit guide, then a few months later, for a past life regression. I think I touched on those a bit in another thread, but here is maybe my main point: I struggled then, and still today, with 'believing.' As participants of this physical world, we all have heard of fakes, charlatans, frauds, all looking to hoodwink some sucker out of their money. It's hard to dismiss those doubts, as of course, in some ways, the existence of the spirit world cannot be concretely proven.

That, of course, was more than 30 years ago, and I'm still at the same impasse. I've read a little about a few subjects, reincarnation, meditation, crystals, a little Wiccan and Pagan history, and more. I've idly played (and played is the word) with the I Ching, runestones, a Tarot deck of some kind. But it's the same with this stuff as with God: I don't want to dismiss it all as nonsense, I want to believe, but I don't know how to get past my skepticism and my ennui as regards changing my life. Lately, like in the past year, I've been having more and more vivid dreams, cinematic to a degree, such that I've actually started trying to Write, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

If you've gotten this far, thank you for hanging in there, 'cause I feel it's you that's going to shine a little bit of Light for me, maybe a step here, dispel a shadow there. I don't expect to be hit by a thunderbolt between the eyes and BELIEVE. What I would like, please, is for any advice on where to start trying to make sense of this (for me) puzzle. What led you to where you are on your journey? More specifically, what started you on this path of belief that the Spiritual world(s) is(are) real? I want to believe (was that Mulder or Scully?), but I don't know how.

And I really want to know how.

[inavalan]

I appreciate your sincerity. It deserves serious answers, on the same wavelength.

My questions started at a moment when I felt I realized more than I expected, and I started to ask why am I here on Earth, what am I here to do?

Introspection and intellectual efforts led me nowhere.

Then, I lost somebody dear, and I wanted to know more. As you mentioned too, I inquired the I Ching, which I had been consulting for many years with notable success. The book's reply was that the answer is beyond my comprehension at that moment.

Then I read and experimented whatever made sense, my path winding toward where I am today. Looking back I can see that had I have noticed the signs, my path could've been less winding.

Now, I believe that for each one of us the only way is to get in touch with our individual inner source of knowledge and guidance. I believe that each one of us has their own inner non-physical guide willing to unconditionally help us on our path, that was always at our side, but which most of us ignore. It gave us guidance all our lives, some of it reached us during our dreams or moments of inspiration, even intuition, but most of it passed by us unnoticed.

So, I suggest to everybody who's asking to get in touch with their own guide. Some people use prayer, meditation, even psychedelic substances; I use self-hypnosis, which I think is the fastest, and introduces the least distortions.

I recommend leaving aside all other beliefs, abandon any guru or dogma that one currently follows, contact their inner guide, without any fear, and proceed from there. Surely you have to be careful that there may be distortions in the flow of knowledge, and patiently account for them.

Any expectations you have will affect what you receive. For example: if you believe in God, your belief will be confirmed, if you don't that will be confirmed.

If you start on that path, you'll progress rapidly. Probably you'll start paying close attention to your dream, record and interpret them every time you wake up, even during the night.

I surely can share what I believe as result of such experiences I had, but you should trust only your own ones.

At several of the authors I read I identified ideas I directly uncovered from my inner guidance, which felt extremely rewarding. I also discovered that some ideas I was already familiar with, can be seen from another perspective that now makes more sense to me. I received answers to questions like the one that started my quest, and to many others. I formed a model of the reality beyond the physical, and positioned this reality and me in it. I learned what I am.

From all the authors I read, the closest to what I independently learned is Jane Roberts. She channeled Seth, a non-physical entity, for several years, and wrote several books, many of them dictated by him.

I recommend reading those books in the order of their publishing, but only for priming your quest for knowledge, and not for accepting everything you read there.

I say this because some of the material in those book is distorted, unconsciously, by the author who inherently filtered everything through her system of beliefs and intellectual capability, and also, because the material is presented by Seth in such a way so everybody will get from it according to their own individual level of evolvement.

If after you progress, you re-read the same material you'll understand more, and some ideas differently. Although I browsed through several of Seth's books, I read cover to cover only a couple of them.

Anyway, these are my honest and well meaning suggestions. I hope they'll help you.

[tripthicket]

Thank you, inavalan, thank you, thank you. Thank you for responding so sincerely yourself. I didn't realize I'd been holding my breath until your reply, expecting to receive brief, maybe dismissive replies that amounted to a single sentence of 4 to 6 words or so. 'Each must find his own path.' That's actually a dismissive belief on my own part, and I recognize that I'm not going to get much of anywhere by bringing my own natural pessimism along to filter everything.

I had read several of Ruth Montgomery's books long ago. Don't think I got around to reading any of the Seth/Roberts books, but I do have A Search For the Truth on my Kindle now. I can't judge its worth to the community at large, but at my elbow I have a paperback copy of John Van Auken's Past Lives and Present Relationships, which I'm fond of, though I've not read it through in many years, just skimmed.

Even if I get no other takers, I am thankful that at least one person recognized my sincerity, my real struggle with this issue. It's been going on a long time, and I may never get to any of the answers I think I need, but I feel I do want to make that concerted effort.

[God-Like]

For many including myself needs proof to some degree to believe in anything ..

Blind faith is a dangerous game without foundation, but on the flip side beliefs can keep one going so to speak, believing in something unknown to them helps tremendously in dire times .

There are plenty of peeps worldwide that can speak about direct experiences of aliens, the spirit world, elementals etc, so there is enough material for the complete skeptic and the one one that sits on the fence to munch over ..

What most eventually realises is that there can be a multitude of contradicting material available so one without experience can be left scratching their heads .

For myself my enquiry into the universe and to other dimensions was met by experiential evidence so my belief is matched with experience .

Another aspect to this, is that for the enquirer of life beyond the earth won't also be met with entertaining an alien in your bedroom for some it could blow a fuse, so direct experience isn't always reflected in that which you sought after .

I believe something will always happen if the conditions are right for you . It could be subtle or not, in your face or not ..

Sometimes putting in the immediate effort won't bring immediate results but something will happen eventually to bring one to a point of solidifying their beliefs .

I suppose paying attention to signs is a good start once there has been an intention is in place .. then see where it leads you ..



x daz x

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by tripthicket

Thank you, inavalan, thank you, thank you. Thank you for responding so sincerely yourself. I didn't realize I'd been holding my breath until your reply, expecting to receive brief, maybe dismissive replies that amounted to a single sentence of 4 to 6 words or so. 'Each must find his own path.' That's actually a dismissive belief on my own part, and I recognize that I'm not going to get much of anywhere by bringing my own natural pessimism along to filter everything.

I had read several of Ruth Montgomery's books long ago. Don't think I got around to reading any of the Seth/Roberts books, but I do have A Search For the Truth on my Kindle now. I can't judge its worth to the community at large, but at my elbow I have a paperback copy of John Van Auken's Past Lives and Present Relationships, which I'm fond of, though I've not read it through in many years, just skimmed.

Even if I get no other takers, I am thankful that at least one person recognized my sincerity, my real struggle with this issue. It's been going on a long time, and I may never get to any of the answers I think I need, but I feel I do want to make that concerted effort.

If you are interested, before delving into Seth's books, you can give it a spin using a very good search engine through the whole Seth material:

https://findingseth.com/

And here there is an annotated list of Jane Roberts / Seth books:

https://www.newworldview.com/freebie...ook-listing-2/

[Native spirit]

I have to agree with God like on this.


Namaste

[Miss Hepburn]

tripthicket, you are very articulate and easy to understand.
ALL the above posts were excellent, imo. We have a good group here.

I can't help ya...I'm a weirdo that has directly experienced other worldly
or supernatural things for decades so - what can I say to help..?..that
I know intimately there is an amazing awesome Presence that's everywhere and is so loving? What would that do?
You could have already read that 30 xs in different books....and still you're, respectfully, a skeptic...an open skeptic, which is pleasant.


There is a 'frequency'...like a radio station. You have to fine tune your attention to pick up the signal...you just can't hear 106.3 ...when you're tuned to 106.1.
Same with God, this Superior Creative Being all around us and within us.
I say: with no anxiety, nothing but ease ...sit in stillness and silence with the intention to pleasantly focus on the awareness of that stillness and silence.
In this sweet place - you will begin your path to an expanding consciousness of the 'invisible'.
It is very thrilling. The Path is nothing but exciting.
Curtail questioning or doubts ...just sit. Feel.
Open to what is around you..because it starts to unfold... to peace...and then much more.
Happy journey to the magical, wonder of the Unseen.
I'm a firm believer in, 'Seeing is believing.'
Now, create the conditions in order to 'see'.

An approach that might be of use is one of the Eastern non-dual approaches. It's not about belief but examination of your own experience.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by tripthicket

So, I believe in God, but apparently not enough to let that belief be any real part of my life. Some may say that's a rejection of God;

If I was aware of God before the age of 12

And I really want to know how.

I know when I moved from the stereotype of God, especially in my own system, I had a lot of guilt doing so. It involved a lot of conflict. The conflict in truth was not about if there is one. This one thing I did not have to struggle with. The conflict I had was more about it. So I am a theist and never did not believe God did not exists. In truth, early on, I sincerely thought others could tell me. These days I no longer care about the names and I was never really alone because obviously many already know of God. I have found a person can be a skeptic of my stereotype and still believe in God.

We even question if God exists saying there's a chance, small as it is, it doesn't. Yet if honest I just can't see it. There is something there is even less of chance of then if God exists. It is kinda simple. Our expectation of it. It is God isn't, and will not be, what every one expects it to be. This is the stereotype. It isn't what we are told. It isn't what we observe. Again, conflict. For me, I have found honesty is conflict.

Is it about what I don't wish to say. I'm sure for instance, there will be many in heaven we will object to seeing there. Something to see if you observe it and it is many people in any system they follow will not fully agree with some aspects in their teaching. In every teaching there is their doubt. Public teaching is often not private acceptance such as in the question of spiritual practice. Here I think we begin to see the notion of stereotyping teaching. For me, it had a lot to do with fear. God appears to be a very passive one and allows everything.

[tripthicket]

Thank you all, for blessing me with an abundance of very well-expressed replies. I have much to think on, and your advice seems like it will be very helpful. In one sense, I'm hearing 'find your path' but it is much more involved and instructive than that, and definitely not at all doesn't-come-close to dismissive. In the larger sense, this advice to look inward, to not chase and flail, to be still and listen, is indeed helpful, without being condescending or trying to magically jump me to a Final Answer.

My first inclination to learn about something new is to read about it. (contrast preferred with habitual) Nothing inherently wrong with that, but no one has or can write a book about what's happening inside me. Still, one can use information found in books as guideposts, if you will. F'instance, a book or two about meditation would likely be helpful, but a roadmap can't walk the journey for you.

And as for knowledge found in books, it may be helpful for me to remember: how exactly did those folks find the knowledge needed to write those books? Some of it by reading other books,okay. Trial and error, to be sure, building on what they might have learned from books, or maybe a friend/mentor/teacher. I can get some clues from books. I can get advice from friends (that's you all; take a bow!). But ultimately, as you're showing me, I need to make the struggle myself.

One thing that heartens me: I'm not doing this to jump in on some (for me) passing fad, as I've known generally about some of this for decades, and haven't yet found it in me to reject it entirely. I'm seriously trying to 'get' this, and you all can see that. I'm relieved, and feeling welcomed indeed. I'm going to wear out these particular letters on my keyboard, but Thank You again. And again.