Our Study Suggests Objective Reality Doesn't Exist

QUOTE=JustASimpleGuy

I'm not saying it's separate, just hidden. And no, the physical universe as we observe and understand it was not there before the Big Bang. Not matter, energy, 'fundamental' forces and not even space and time. There's something that it arose from. Gave birth to it. Call it the unified field where all differentiation ceases. Call it pure awareness. I think both are one in the same, but that's purely intuition.

Hmmm... I suppose that depends on what one means when they say the 'physical' universe, and how we understand that term. But certainly one way to understand that is that the physical universe was not there as we observe it today. But one question I would ask you, is whether the physical universe was there before you observed it, even one plank unit of time ago? Or phrased in more familiar terms, 'Do you like to think that the moon is there, even when you are not looking?'.

From the Bhagavad Gita (11:30)
"You lap the worlds into your burning mouths and swallow them. Filled with your terrible radiance, O Vishnu, the whole of creation bursts into flame."

Let there be light perhaps? But who is saying it?

It's posited if one plays inflation backwards and as the observable universe becomes more and more compressed its temperature and energy level increase and the matter, energy and forces we are familiar with begin to unravel, folding into more unified form until there's only one. Some would call it the unified field.

Some might call it oneness, the time before there were objects, the mysterious depths of the Tao, the mother of all things, the instant before thought, the moment before observation and unlimited possibility and potentiality, becomes my reality.

From our energy level it's quite impossible to perceive that unification outside of Divine intervention or somehow transcending this reality to that reality.

Perhaps, there is only one reality, but infinitely many eyes with which to view it.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by ketzer

QUOTE=JustASimpleGuy

I'm not saying it's separate, just hidden. And no, the physical universe as we observe and understand it was not there before the Big Bang. Not matter, energy, 'fundamental' forces and not even space and time. There's something that it arose from. Gave birth to it. Call it the unified field where all differentiation ceases. Call it pure awareness. I think both are one in the same, but that's purely intuition.

Hmmm... I suppose that depends on what one means when they say the 'physical' universe, and how we understand that term. But certainly one way to understand that is that the physical universe was not there as we observe it today. But one question I would ask you, is whether the physical universe was there before you observed it, even one plank unit of time ago? Or phrased in more familiar terms, 'Do you like to think that the moon is there, even when you are not looking?'.

From the Bhagavad Gita (11:30)
"You lap the worlds into your burning mouths and swallow them. Filled with your terrible radiance, O Vishnu, the whole of creation bursts into flame."

Let there be light perhaps? But who is saying it?

It's posited if one plays inflation backwards and as the observable universe becomes more and more compressed its temperature and energy level increase and the matter, energy and forces we are familiar with begin to unravel, folding into more unified form until there's only one. Some would call it the unified field.

Some might call it oneness, the time before there were objects, the mysterious depths of the Tao, the mother of all things, the instant before thought, the moment before observation and unlimited possibility and potentiality, becomes my reality.

From our energy level it's quite impossible to perceive that unification outside of Divine intervention or somehow transcending this reality to that reality.

Perhaps, there is only one reality, but infinitely many eyes with which to view it.

I think the universe was here before the big bang. the universe simply did not have any matter in it before the big bang, thus was not physical. The big bang created matter that we observe in the physical universe or our consciousness callapses the wave function of the electromagnetic field in the copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory. This callapse in the wave function is what happens when we observe. This makes the most sense to me.

Originally Posted by ketzer

Some might call it oneness, the time before there were objects, the mysterious depths of the Tao, the mother of all things, the instant before thought, the moment before observation and unlimited possibility and potentiality, becomes my reality.

Somewhere in this sub-forum I posted a lecture at Stanford by John Hagelin. Here's one of the slides from his presentation.

http://leagueofawesomeness.com/wp-co...fied-field.jpg

As for beginnings and endings and the "time" between, it's all speculation. I can't even begin to comprehend infinity, the Absolute, if you will. Is it just one Big Bang or are there many as in Eternal Inflation? Or is it The Many Worlds interpretation of collapse of the wave function? What's below our current understanding of physics? Is it Superstring Theory or M-Theory or something we simply can't begin to conceive?

This stuff is fun to let romp around in the mind and attempt to integrate it with spirituality. The relationship between the Absolute and Maya. The Unmanifest and the manifest.

Far greater intellects than mine come up far short of 'the how' of it all. LOL!

Originally Posted by ketzer

...Perhaps, there is only one reality, but infinitely many eyes with which to view it.

Bingo .

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I think the universe was here before the big bang. the universe simply did not have any matter in it before the big bang, thus was not physical. The big bang created matter that we observe in the physical universe or our consciousness callapses the wave function of the electromagnetic field in the copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory. This callapse in the wave function is what happens when we observe. This makes the most sense to me.

The big bang could have been a cleansing or refresh and renewing event.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I think the universe was here before the big bang. the universe simply did not have any matter in it before the big bang, thus was not physical. The big bang created matter that we observe in the physical universe or our consciousness callapses the wave function of the electromagnetic field in the copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory. This callapse in the wave function is what happens when we observe. This makes the most sense to me.

In the Copenhagen interpretation, the wave function collapses when we observe it, perhaps, within the observer, is also where it collapses as well. For those who are not entangled with that observer in that co-created reality, the wave rolls on with it's many worlds intact to crash upon their shores in their way.

Perhaps, when a wave collapses, it makes a sound, and that sound is Bang. A bang so big, it echoes through all the subsequent collapses and interferes with those bangs and those echos as well. Perhaps, all those bangs and echoes, when taken together, make one particular harmonious sound.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by ketzer

In the Copenhagen interpretation, the wave function collapses when we observe it, perhaps, within the observer, is also where it collapses as well. For those who are not entangled with that observer in that co-created reality, the wave rolls on with it's many worlds intact to crash upon their shores in their way.

Perhaps, when a wave collapses, it makes a sound, and that sound is Bang. A bang so big, it echoes through all the subsequent collapses and interferes with those bangs and those echos as well. Perhaps, all those bangs and echoes, when taken together, make one particular harmonious sound.

Yes, That is possible too.

Originally Posted by ketzer

In the Copenhagen interpretation, the wave function collapses when we observe it, perhaps, within the observer, is also where it collapses as well. For those who are not entangled with that observer in that co-created reality, the wave rolls on with it's many worlds intact to crash upon their shores in their way.

Perhaps, when a wave collapses, it makes a sound, and that sound is Bang. A bang so big, it echoes through all the subsequent collapses and interferes with those bangs and those echos as well. Perhaps, all those bangs and echoes, when taken together, make one particular harmonious sound.

I think this is where we get confused. For instance Einstein saying "I like to think that the Moon is still there even if I'm not looking at it".

What it comes down to is who is the observer? Is it consciousness manifest or Consciousness unmanifest? Is it the eye or the Eye of the eye? The mind or the Mind of the mind?

If it's consciousness manifest then the Moon is only there when I look at it. If it's Consciousness unmanifest then it's there whether I'm looking at it or not.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I think this is where we get confused. For instance Einstein saying "I like to think that the Moon is still there even if I'm not looking at it".

What it comes down to is who is the observer? Is it consciousness manifest or Consciousness unmanifest? Is it the eye or the Eye of the eye? The mind or the Mind of the mind?

If it's consciousness manifest then the Moon is only there when I look at it. If it's Consciousness unmanifest then it's there whether I'm looking at it or not.

Well since we are discussing confusion, why stop there?

Is the moon manifested consciousness? If so, where and what is the moon when consciousness is not manifesting it, or for that matter, when it is manifesting it. Perhaps, like the electron, it is spread out everywhere at once. Perhaps it is waiting in potentiality for you to decide when and where it will made manifest. Perhaps even where and when are waiting in potentiality for you to make them manifest. Where is the moon then?

Perhaps the moon is just a reflection that is now behind the crest of a wave in the quantum field and will only show if you place your shore in the right place to make it collapse just right.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Yes, That is possible too.

It sounds nice anyway.