BLACK SABBATH

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Indeed.
Subjective statement on your part.
What I stated is an accepted fact, objectively, in the various rehabilitive organizations, as well as in the sense of Faith, and, "religion".

Regarding your personal issues, God help you with them, wolf.

I just said my opinion of Jeff Fenholt. You resorted to name calling, judgment, saying 'God help you with your issues', 'you haven't gotten there yet'. What about your issues?

Let me tell you a little secret. Christians are not always persecuted because they are 'God's people', sometimes it's because of how they treat others. Anger and judgement is part of the problem in this world. You can be part of the problem if you feel you must, but you're not going to have a very happy life causing suffering for others.

If you want to know peace, turn away from anger and hate and turn to God. God is the only one who can fill your heart with love. Let go of angry myths and focus on the people around you, how you can better love them and see them do well in life.

[Morpheus]

Right. Thanks for your sincere advice.

You were wrong.

What I can only suggest, with regard to personal issues, and exhibited disaffected mindset, is to attend to my 2012 thread in the Interfaith forum, and be appraised of the timeline we are in regarding prophecy.
That's the best I can do for you. As well as paying attention to the cited musicians conversions to faith, above.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Right. Thanks for your sincere advice.

You were wrong.

What I can only suggest, with regard to personal issues, and exhibited disaffected mindset, is to attend to my 2012 thread in the Interfaith forum, and be appraised of the timeline we are in regarding prophecy.
That's the best I can do for you. As well as paying attention to the cited musicians conversions to faith, above.

Maybe I am wrong, it doesn't bother me to be wrong about such trivial things as the lives of celebrities. I just go by what I see. I used to watch TBN in 80's and saw Jeff many times. The thing he did to Nicky Cruz on the air was horrible, and Jeff's face looked very much like he was still on drugs. He wore expensive diamond watches and extravagant rings, and just had a air of fakeness about him. Of course I could be wrong, but who cares?

Just because someone doesn't think or believe the same way that you do, doesn't mean they're a 'lost soul' or haven't 'gotten there yet'. That kind of thinking suggests a person is lost themselves.



Black Sabbath 'After Forever' lyrics by Tony Iommi

Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone
Open your eyes, just realize that He's the one
The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late.

[norseman]

If you play Sabbath's song "War Pigs" backwards, you can clearly hear Fenholt on vocals

[jalini]

Playing nice with our Brothers and Sisters...

That is what those who follow the Christ do.

[Morpheus]

Amen jalini. Apparently this doesn't include Seawolf, however, by his own admission.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Amen jalini. Apparently this doesn't include Seawolf, however, by his own admission.

I'm just sheep in wolf's clothing.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Well, I see in your perspective of things, there is no room for him being genuine. That would be subjective perspective, on your part, and involving your certain and particular issues.

So what is the difference between your subjective perspective and that of someone else? You cannot prove the things you believe to be truth, other than giving a scripture for it, or the testimony of another person; which is all subjective evidence.

The interesting thing I have noticed here is that you produce very thin evidence for many things, yet when someone else gives solid evidence, you call it untruth, disaffected or subjective. It seems you wear your opinion like a helmet and let nothing, not even the truth penetrate it. Strong belief in something does not make it true... A child can believe in Santa Claus and refuse to believe the other children who do not believe in him... but that does not make Santa the truth. And it doesn't help the case to say that those who do not believe in Santa are being deceived by some devil or brainwashed by an evil fallen world; where would be the evidence to prove such a claim, a scripture perhaps?.... That is subjective.

The truth is Fenholt was never in Black Sabbath; I used to be a big fan of the band and can solidly state; he was never on any albums or tours with the band. His name was never listed on any of the songs as a writer of lyrics. And trust me, I went back and checked all my albums when I heard of fenholt back in the 80's. He tried out for the band and recorded some demos, but was replaced.... He did not work with the band nor was not a part of any of it's work.

From Wikipedia - Fenholt says several of his melodies were used in songs that appeared on Seventh Star (and subsequently did not receive credit for them). None of his lyrics were used, as confirmed by comparing the Fenholt demos with the album.

Millions of musicians try out for bands and even record demos to see how the chemistry works... That does not mean you are a part of the band, it means you are being "tried out."

Another thing to remember is that TBN is filled with scam artists and scoundrels.. most of them will say or do anything to make a buck. Do you believe they are all honest and wonderful just because they claim to be Christians? If this is what you think, you need to do a little research on the network and the popular preachers that fill their stalls... The very fact that Fenholt associates with such a spurious group makes me question him right from the start. If I went to TBN and told them that I used to be a drummer for Kiss they would probably give me my own show to try and get Kiss fans to watch and give money to TBN... and that my friend, is a very sad and actual truth about how that network was and still is run. It is seldom about truth and God, but more about illusions and big money

TBN is filled with preachers that talk about one another as being, "GREAT MEN OF GOD." Yet these great men of God have ministries and lives that are filled with every kind of immoral scandal that you can imagine. I do not judge these people, how they live their lives is between them and God.. But I will certainly not look to them as being a reliable source concerning any information about God or Spirituality.

But don't take my word for it... research TBN and Fenholt's Black Sabbath associations yourself... the truth is not hard to find.

But then again, your own subjective opinion will always out weigh the actual facts... It must be nice when reality can be "subject" to change.

[jalini]

Greetings, if you will indulge me... :)

Subjective/objective; or in our Faith are we seeking Certainly which requires neither?

Most followers of a any religion proceed on thier chosen path
starting with the first type of certainty in knowledge, through inference. A sacred text is read, or taught and
it is "inferred" that the source or the sources of teaching are
reliable and the dictates given or taught should thus be followed.

As followers continue on their Path, they naturally wish to increase
their certainty and look to the second stage or level of certainty
in knowledge. Here, sacred texts and sacred knowledge is
scrutinized in more detail. Questions are formed and answers are
sought. As the believer "sees" more of the reality of the texts
unveiled or the reality of the teaching unveiled he/she will move
into the second realm of certainty.

The final certainty is the "taste" of the reality.
This essentially defies proper description, just as you would be
unable to describe the burn of a fire to one who had never been
burned. Or the taste of the Asian fruit Durian to one who has never
tasted it. You could only slightly approximate the experience in
any description.



So in essence, the seeker has three stages to pass through.

We hear from a friend there is a fire. We believe him
We see a fire, we know[ledge) now there is one
We are burned by falling debris, we have arrived at certainty/certitude the fire is Truth.
We experience or taste the truth.

Originally Posted by jalini

Greetings, if you will indulge me... :)

Subjective/objective; or in our Faith are we seeking Certainly which requires neither?

Most followers of a any religion proceed on thier chosen path
starting with the first type of certainty in knowledge, through inference. A sacred text is read, or taught and
it is "inferred" that the source or the sources of teaching are
reliable and the dictates given or taught should thus be followed.

As followers continue on their Path, they naturally wish to increase
their certainty and look to the second stage or level of certainty
in knowledge. Here, sacred texts and sacred knowledge is
scrutinized in more detail. Questions are formed and answers are
sought. As the believer "sees" more of the reality of the texts
unveiled or the reality of the teaching unveiled he/she will move
into the second realm of certainty.

The final certainty is the "taste" of the reality.
This essentially defies proper description, just as you would be
unable to describe the burn of a fire to one who had never been
burned. Or the taste of the Asian fruit Durian to one who has never
tasted it. You could only slightly approximate the experience in
any description.



So in essence, the seeker has three stages to pass through.

We hear from a friend there is a fire. We believe him
We see a fire, we know[ledge) now there is one
We are burned by falling debris, we have arrived at certainty/certitude the fire is Truth.
We experience or taste the truth.

But you missed the point; which is how some people will ignore objective evidence and explain it away by a subjective belief.

All spiritual people need to have faith in one thing or another that cannot be proven by tangible facts. But it is yet another matter to try and explain away or discredit historical records, archaeological evidences and known facts by choosing to turn a blind eye and posting a scripture... That is not faith, objective or even subjective; it is foolish and delusional.