Can one think themselves to death?

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

There are many paths that aren't paths and they all lead to the same place that isn't a place.

Forgetting about paths that aren't paths and places that aren't places, I can look back on the past dozen years and juxtapose the periods I did and didn't engage in simple mindfulness meditation and purely for secular reasons. The difference in quality of being is stark. One takeaway is it's not what the world does but how we perceive it and react to it. While it might not totally eliminate second arrow suffering it mitigates it and to the extent of one's cumulative practice.

Just like I wouldn't say one meditation technique is better than another I also wouldn't say one path is better than another. It depends on the individual. I think the dualist Yogi who attains liberation is just as free as the non-dualist Advaitan who attains liberation is just as free as the monotheist Christian who attains liberation.

I would say the important thing is find something that works and stick with it, and Lord knows there are many different paths discussed in this venue. Maybe that's the difficult part, deciding on a direction?

No doubt, mindfulness does feel wonderful. Yet I have to wonder if it would feel as wonderful if not juxtaposed against those times without it. Perhaps you are right, one must find something that works and stick with it. Yet all to often, I have stumbled into finding things that only worked for a time, and then I found myself stuck in them and had to get back out again. So many times this has happened to me that I now avoid anything too sticky for fear of once again becoming stuck. When I see others who seem to be struggling and yet don't appear to be getting anywhere, I start to suspect it may be a tar pit they have become stuck in, and now try to steer my way around it. I used to rush in and try to pull them from the pit, feeling it was the compassionate thing to do. Eventually, I realized all to often they didn't want to get out, that I wished to free them for my own sake and not theirs, and anyway, they were not trying to pull themselves out either, just trying too pull me in instead.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Perhaps. Perhaps there is no "path", yet only the fool does not walk it.
Perhaps sometimes knowledge can be explained with words, but perhaps for wisdom, it is often necessary that those words not be true, and yet necessary that we believed them to be so, at least for a time.

All paths are the path though there was (is) only one. Look back at them some time. They are imo needed and must be traveled and experienced. Might paths be about learning. Don't we often fight being (on) the path. Experience is the path, knowledge is not. Experience is knowledge. Knowledge is put in use by or from experience. Knowledge is empty without experience. A person on a path does not see it. Paths are not destiny, predetermined, or set, to me, they are (simply) thought.

Originally Posted by lemex

All paths are the path though there was (is) only one. Look back at them some time. They are imo needed and must be traveled and experienced. Might paths be about learning. Don't we often fight being (on) the path. Experience is the path, knowledge is not. Experience is knowledge. Knowledge is put in use by or from experience. Knowledge is empty without experience. A person on a path does not see it.

Yes, I think the reference I gave does that sentiment justice. Yet, can I not also say that knowledge is also part and parcel of experience?
The qualia of an experience is colored by the knowledge one brings to it, regardless of whether the knowledge is fact or fiction. True, a person on a path may not see it, unless I suppose they are following a well worn path of others. Yet even then they don't know where it is actually going, and it is certain that wherever it leads, it will not lead to the same place as all those who have traveled it before have ended up. No man can step in the same river twice, nor can any path ever lead the same man back home again. Even a path that seems to go endlessly in a circle, can still lead to a different place.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Yes, I think the reference I gave does that sentiment justice. Yet, can I not also say that knowledge is also part and parcel of experience?
The qualia of an experience is colored by the knowledge one brings to it,

Yes of course knowledge is. Experience brings a deeper level of understanding and truth. Experience is what is felt. Experience gives insight. Experience brings out other knowledge. I think the opposite is true and that knowledge is colored by experience. Knowledge opens up through experience. I'll end saying I know experience is to be feared and uncomfortable, knowledge is not. Knowledge is not scary at all which is why I put it second. Knowledge does not have to be used this is what experience has shown me. Added: Often experience is used not knowledge.

Experience brings knowledge to knowledge. Experience brings fear when it should be knowledge if one is mindful.

Originally Posted by lemex

Yes of course knowledge is. Experience brings a deeper level of understanding and truth. Experience is what is felt. Experience gives insight. Experience brings out other knowledge. I think the opposite is true and that knowledge is colored by experience. Knowledge opens up through experience. I'll end saying I know experience is to be feared and uncomfortable, knowledge is not. Knowledge is not scary at all which is way I put it second. Knowledge does not have to be used this is what experience has shown me.

Experience brings knowledge to knowledge. Experience brings fear when it should be knowledge if one is mindful.

Yes, the opposite is true as well.

Yet I do not think knowledge is quite so docile a thing either. Knowledge can be very uncomfortable, it can gnaw at one until they feel forced to action. Some experiences come about solely from knowledge of events that may have happened long ago. Sometimes knowledge is so scary that some do not wish to be given it, and if they are given it will cast it out and pretend they never had it. Knowledge of fear and fear are not the same things, can not substitute in for one another, yet both have their inherent value. Of course knowledge can bring about many experiences, not just fear.

Knowledge and experience are intertwined, like two dogs chasing each others tails.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by JustBe

It means your in an open state, not contained by the minds idea of everything you experience as you, but rather open and moving through everything that creates reaction or resistance.

Say you feel anxious at work, if your contained it will build up like an internal hold on you. If your open, acknowledging it fully in whatever way it arises, it will pass fast. You’ll have dropped into your being, not making up things about it and having it s linger on over and over. You won’t judge what you feel but rather feel it fully and not be contained by it. The mind is the container.

thanks, I'll keep that in mind.