A silly question of Zen

I have meditated and taught meditation in many forms but Zen as easy as it sounded to me at first seems to be escaping me. It's such a typical question I am sure but how do I know if I have reached it (even for a brief second)?

I am ashamed to say I feel like I am failing though I am sure that's a label I am placing on myself

[psychoslice]

Its time for you to stop meditating, stop teaching and just be what IS, you cannot do anything to obtain it, you can only get in the way of what you already are, just give up because you'll never win, you already are passed the goal post, so why are you lagging behind ?.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by TaoZen

I have meditated and taught meditation in many forms but Zen as easy as it sounded to me at first seems to be escaping me. It's such a typical question I am sure but how do I know if I have reached it (even for a brief second)?

I am ashamed to say I feel like I am failing though I am sure that's a label I am placing on myself

Hi TaoZen .

Perhaps you can enlighten us on your meditation techniques .

For me over many years my meditation has changed along with my mind-sets .

I used to say at first my mind was like a car on a full tank of gas and I watched the car In mind driving anywhere and everywhere . What’s It like to overtake another car what’s it like to do a handbrake turn drive round a roundabout and stop at a railway crossing .

Eventually my mind lost the enthusiasm and energy when the car yet again overtakes another car and crosses a bridge etc. Through dedication / discipline the will of the mind that wants to be In noise and to be busyness had lessened . The car Is by now running out of gas . What’s happening Is the the busyness of the mind becomes less and less and before you know It the car has come to a halt and It has run It’s course .

It seems like a natural process as like the wind blows it’s self out and like a fire that eventually will burn It’s self out .

Of course there were times where I focused on my energies so I could rise above the noise but In some respect or to some degree that’s suppressing what the mind has In mind .

What do you feel the Zen meditation will bring to you that Isn’t already present within your practices?

x daz x

Well I wonder if i have ever reached a zen state at all...my meditation is silent, seated upright and an attempt to just be present. What psychslice says is right...I try too hard and I wish I knew how to stop trying

Maybe my mind is nowhere near as at ease as I thought

Thank you for your honesty

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by TaoZen

Well I wonder if i have ever reached a zen state at all...my meditation is silent, seated upright and an attempt to just be present. What psychslice says is right...I try too hard and I wish I knew how to stop trying

Maybe my mind is nowhere near as at ease as I thought

Thank you for your honesty

IMO, it is not that we try too hard, it is that we try at all. Where does the "need" to reach some state come from?
The answer to this, for me was the end of my search and the beginning of peace.
Juat sharing from my journey.
James

Originally Posted by TaoZen

Well I wonder if i have ever reached a zen state at all...my meditation is silent, seated upright and an attempt to just be present. What psychslice says is right...I try too hard and I wish I knew how to stop trying

Maybe my mind is nowhere near as at ease as I thought

Thank you for your honesty

Zen is not complicated, there is no point to it, meaning there is no goal to it, nothing. Zero goal. You will not have expectations. You will not have to go anywhere, go ahead, go backwards, you are simply in the moment. You do not get in there and fix stuff, and you don't make anyone else do it either. Everything already is okay in Zen, because, everything is always okay in the present moment, there is nothing there, and the moment you are in now, is the only thing that matters. You live right now, nowhere else.
Erase all your expectations. If you are wanting to get somewhere from your practices, that is not Zen. Zen is not about getting anywhere. It's about staying in one place - just the present moment.

Try to live Zen first if this seems complicated. Don't just step into it and start meditating zen. Do things, in the moment. Wash your dishes by hand, in the moment, and really be present, sense everything you do. Go for a walk, in the moment without your future or past with you. Feel the air on your forehead, feel the ground under your feet, listen to sounds around you. It's not about erasing all your thoughts at first. It's about enjoying the moment at hand, completely. From there, you can learn to be still and silent zen.
You aren't going to be worrying about your past or future, or worrying you are doing it all wrong. Because there is no wrong way to do zen. You just have to live in the moment.
All zen is, is to be. right now. Just Be. Exist.

Start to try to live Zen first. Bring it into your daily chores and activities.
Then you can get into Zazan (sitting meditation).

You aren't in control. You aren't supposed to be. So give up that control, that is the Zen way, realizing the world spins without your help and all you have to do is observe, you can decide not to get upset, you can just be, instead.
Zen is much more than a mediation practice, it is a way of life, and i guess you may need to learn more about that way of life in order to grasp the ability to meditate that way.
You need to learn to look at your obstacles like, "things happen, and that's all."

So how do you know if you have reached that state?
You will not care much, once you get into a state of zen, you may not even know it, you won't congratulate yourself, because all it is is simply being in the moment.
When you meditate, remember to breathe, and zazen is the traditional way, but you can meditate however you want, whichever way is more comfortable to you.

Good point...I am trying period and have troubles living in the moment

I will work on it..."or should I say not work on it

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by TaoZen

Good point...

I am trying period and have troubles living in the moment

I will work on it..."or should I say not work on it

Hi TaoZen .

So what If you have troubles living In the moment for the rest of your days?

x daz x

I applaud your honesty. being open about our productivity, our level of skill and things of that nature are inherently difficult. i can not say enough how much i admire it because it denotes that you are more concerned with finding the or an answer as opposed to what people think of your efforts.

on that note, this WILL be long winded for the sake of thoroughness. my apologies a priori

What im going to ask what may be foolish questions, i dont need an answer, hopefully you find it yourself and its what you need.

1. Have you along with your meditation practice unified it with insight practices? This is vital with allowing us to relate skillfully to the objects present during practice (and naturally with life). This way we know what we are seeing without doubt. That includes the very physical, emotional and mental sensations associated with the feeling that we are missing something.

2. Is it perhaps a point where you need a break from practice? Ofcourse in any endeavor, our progress becomes stagnant at times, often signifying we need a break.

Spiritual catchphrases are useful at times, but when we use them to guide us exclusively they can sometimes prove counterproductive in that they become, regardless of how accepting they may be, nothing more than more of the belief systems that we are trying to uproot. Saying it and genuinely feeling it do not always go hand in hand.

Having said that, i feel quite strongly that if you are feeling that there is something, a goal to attain, if it is a strong feeling,

then there is.

Although the journey is the goal, we must reach the goal to know that, not conceptually but experientially. It is a paradox that the mind would struggle against, but it is no less accurate.

if we seek, then what we seek, whatever we may call it, is worthy of effort, and depending on what it is takes effort.

Again, this is where we say, okay, what am i after? Enlightenment? Power?
or are we seeking just to be relatively at ease? The answer should determine not only the amount of effort, but what kind.

I hope that what ive provided has been useful. I dont have your answer with certainty. But i do know this,

and it is certain.

You have nothing to be ashamed about. Shame is unworthy of you.
you know, think of all the great feats that man has endeavored towards and accomplished throughout history. Climbing the most treacherous mountain on earth? Developing technology to search the stars? Great efforts, great acheivments.

Do you now what drove them to achieve these things?

Their minds.

The very thing that led to such great acts of conquest, you seek to conquer.
You climb the highest mountain, dont ever let yourself forget that.

Take heart warrior, pick up your sword and let not these ghostly enemies
deter you from a victory that IS yours.