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  #1  
Old 02-01-2021, 03:14 PM
ketzer
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Can one think themselves to death?

If I see through this illusion of life, and this illusion of me, is that seeing reality, or just a kind of death? And if so, is it a good thing, a bad thing, or maybe just yet one more thing?

I have to say, I have been aware that I have a thinking problem for some time now. I think I think too much sometimes, right now I suppose being one of them. I like to think about the underlying nature of reality. I like to dive as deep as my limited breadth allows into physics and see what insights and clues may be there. I like to dive into the psychology of my own mind and examine what I find there, often finding there is no solid I to speak of.

For a time, I was obsessed with answering the question, “What is real?” or “I am...what?”. I have discovered many things, found them to not be real from the perspective of what lies beneath them, but I don’t think I have come any closer to answering those questions, and indeed seem further away than ever. Unless of course, I just throw up my hands and say, “Everything is real?”, the answer is, “Yes”. IDK if that is legit or not, but it does feel damn good anyway.

In my wanderings, it occurred to me that if I can explain away reality as illusion, and explain away myself as an illusion of mind, and find myself with nothing left, what will I do then…? I mean technically I won’t even be there...no space, no time, no matter, no me. Is this nothingness not the goal many profess to be seeking?

So far, no matter how far I find myself wandering, I always come back to find a me made of matter occupying space in the present moment. Perhaps it is at the end of the day and I have just enjoyed a half a pint of this or that, or maybe it is getting late and I am just tired of thinking, or perhaps I just get caught up in all that illusion surrounding me in that moment. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Have I failed to achieve enlightenment? Is the attainment of nothingness the same as the attainment of enlightenment, or is it just the attainment of darkness?

IDK, but the older I get, perhaps because I have that much less life to have to face, the less I find myself preoccupied with seeing through this illusion of life, and the more content I seem to be to let it run its course. Even though, or maybe even because, I know it is a 100% fatal condition. Maybe I am just getting older and more tired, but I must say, I find the restfulness of it very satisfying. It feels like turning around and drifting with the current instead of swimming hard to get upstream. Do you suppose, at least for some, that this what death feels like?

Last edited by ketzer : 02-01-2021 at 09:52 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2021, 03:39 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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I'm a big advocate of thinking and especially abstract lines of thought. Pondering the imponderable. That being said I'm of the opinion it needs a counterbalance and for me that's meditation. The concentration and clarity of mind it cultivates is a force multiplier, sorting out the wheat from the chaff so to speak, allowing greater engagement of the wheat and dismissal of the chaff. Call it enhanced discernment. It also allows for total disengagement from habits of mind and to just rest in pure being, absolute stillness.

As far as what we are? Nothing effable though we can rest in the Ineffable. I know I have a face whether or not I'm looking in a mirror. Were I deaf, dumb, blind and paralyzed from birth I'd still know I exist. That "knowing" is our intrinsic nature.
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Old 02-01-2021, 05:10 PM
ameliorate ameliorate is offline
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I would consider myself to be a deep thinker also. As to the issue of whether this life is an illusion and how we deal with that, whilst I grasp that this largely refers to our ego/worldly ID, notably our perception of what exists, nevertheless it isn't supposed to mean that nothing exists! There is still an objective reality out there.

I actually don't find it helpful to contemplate that our world is an illusion since we have to interact and live our lives in it daily! It feels like a kind of negation, a numbness, a way of feeling less vital and I dislike taking that on board.

To live in the now is energising - awareness of the present....feeling/experience what there is rather than being preoccupied with thoughts which is never in the now. Also, being free of thought in a mindful way frees up access to our intuition which gives the wisest knowledge.

There's a place for mulling over spiritual concepts - and there are an abundance of concepts when it comes to spirituality - but moderation is the key as JustASimpleGuy alluded to in the previous post here.

Your title - can one think themselves to death? - felt odd...and I wondered whether you might have meant overreacting (which is a symptom of neurosis) as in getting worked up and inducing a heart attack! Maybe not though.
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  #4  
Old 02-01-2021, 05:16 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
If I see through this illusion of life, and this illusion of me, is that seeing reality, or just a kind of death? And if so, is it a good thing, a bad thing, or maybe just yet one more thing?

I have to say, I have been aware that I have a thinking problem for some time now. I think I think too much sometimes, right now I suppose being one of them. I like to think about the underlying nature of reality. I like to dive as deep as my limited breadth allows into physics and see what insights and clues may be there. I like to dive into the psychology of my own mind and examine what I find there, often finding there is no solid I to speak of.

For a time, I was obsessed with answering the question, “What is real?” or “I am...what?”. I have discovered many things, found them to not be real from the perspective of what lies beneath them, but I don’t think I have come any closer to answering those questions, and indeed seem further away than ever. Unless of course, I just throw up my hands and say, “Everything is real?”, the answer is, “Yes”. IDK if that is legit or not, but it does feel damn good anyway.

In my wanderings, it occurred to me that if I can explain away reality as illusion, and explain away myself as an illusion of mind, and find myself with nothing left, what will I do then…? I mean technically I won’t even be there...no space, no time, no matter, no me. Is this nothingness not the goal many profess to be seeking?

So far, no matter how far I find myself wandering, I always come back to find a me made of matter occupying space in the present moment. Perhaps it is at the end of the day and I have just enjoyed a half a pint of this or that, or maybe it is getting late and I am just tired of thinking, or perhaps I just get caught up in all that illusion surrounding me in that moment. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Have I failed to achieve enlightenment? Is the attainment of nothingness the same as the attainment of enlightenment, or is it just the attainment of darkness?

IDK, but the older I get, perhaps because I have that much less life to have to face, the less I find myself preoccupied with seeing through this illusion of life, and the more content I seem to be to let it run its course. Even though, or maybe even because, I know it is 100% fatal condition. Maybe I am just getting older and more tired, but I must say, I find the restfulness of it very satisfying. It feels like turning around and drifting with the current instead of swimming hard to get upstream. Do you suppose, at least for some, that this what death feels like?
I find much of what is said part my experience as well. I am able to relate to it. Been there, done that, asked the question years ago, answered it as well (for myself). It is imo, not about pondering the improbable, it is pondering what we do not want to think about and fear.

Yes, ego fears it. It even gives us (the) logic. It is built in. Ego talks to us. Losing oneself versus finding. The ego is not concerned with finding but staying, the soul is not the ego, yet we do not know how it feels. I must say, an old idea and question for me. I see it differently now and find that which you mention no longer concerns me.
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  #5  
Old 02-01-2021, 06:15 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Ramana Maharshi followed his thoughts to the funeral pyre
becoming what 'he was' without his body, before birth and so on.
He became enlightened.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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  #6  
Old 02-01-2021, 06:48 PM
ameliorate ameliorate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Ramana Maharshi followed his thoughts to the funeral pyre
becoming what 'he was' without his body, before birth and so on.
He became enlightened.
I would suggest his enlightenment had more to do with his extensive meditations than his thoughts.
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Old 02-01-2021, 06:59 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Do you know his history or his story, tho?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliorate
I would suggest his enlightenment had more to do with his extensive
meditations than his thoughts.
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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #8  
Old 02-01-2021, 07:08 PM
ameliorate ameliorate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Do you know his history or his story, tho?
No - well, not in detail. I realise he made great strides through personal enquiry but what I know of him largely springs from his dedication to meditation, the experience of which must surely have enabled his enlightenment.
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  #9  
Old 02-01-2021, 07:35 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliorate
No - well, not in detail. I realise he made great strides through personal enquiry but what I know
of him largely springs from his dedication to meditation, the experience of which must surely have enabled his enlightenment.
He was enlightened at around 17, btw.
Never, um, deviated is a good word...stayed in 'that place'.


Here, I found a couple things. :)

''in 1896, at the age of 16, he had a "death-experience" where he became aware of a "current" or "force".''
.....

...he was sixteen years of age, he had a remarkable spiritual awakening. ..'...
he began to investigate what constituted death: what would die and what would survive that death...
.... initiated a process of self-enquiry that culminated, within a few minutes, in his own permanent awakening.
__________________

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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #10  
Old 02-01-2021, 10:18 PM
ketzer
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Thanks for the replies. Many good things to think about. What I tend to be thinking about lately is just how important all this thinking, meditating, practicing, etc...is. How much time does it take away from just being? Or then again is it all just another part of just being?......alive? Part of that pathless path that only the fool does not try to follow. Maybe the path is only in our minds, yet it is good to try follow it nonetheless..? Certainly it leads somewhere, but then so does walking about aimlessly. Maybe they lead to the same place anyway. IDK, maybe I should think about it a bit more... or maybe not?

"What I have learned up to this day with the shramanas, this, o Govinda, I could have learned more quickly and more simply: In any tavern in a brothel district, my friend, among men who haul freight and play at dice I could have learned it."
Siddhartha - Hermann Hesse
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