Anyone out there beat low self esteem?

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Sungirl

What did you do?

Pretty low at the moment so looking for hints.

I can love myself heaps and heaps, but I struggle with believing that others think of me as much more than an annoyance or a skivvy most of the time

Hi Sungirl,

I try to love God - first, foremost, always. That is the true source of 'self-esteem'. And that same God is operating in and through others as well. So a strong relationship consciously developed within oneself in that way also means one that is present in others - it becomes the relationship with others through the Highest within yourself. And it is much more satisfying than self-esteem.

~ J

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Self Esteem is the measure of how you value yourself.
This determination has absolutely nothing to do with anything external to yourself.
Your value to you is independant of all advice offered from outside of you.
I believe that if you realise that you have ALWAYS provided yourself with honest appraisals of everything that you've encountered;
you've ALWAYS tried to "do your best" in every situation that you've found yourself in; you will decide to judge yourself fairly.

[Mr Interesting]

I have a close friend who's quite low on the self esteen thing and it's annoying but occasionally the real him shines through and it kinda makes the effort worth while.

Sometimes theres three of us who meet up and the one with low self esteem really makes us laugh... It's kinda cruel but we just end up laughing our heads off at his inability to be true to himself... because it's really funny when he goes off on these tangents of the world as he sees it which has absolutely no bearing on the here and now... so we laugh 'cause it's hilarious how unable he is to read our cues and think how important what he has to say is to him alone...

With this he's actually made tremendous strides... he knows now exactly when he starts going into his head and expects us to follow.

People have said to me I have high self esteem which is odd because what's really going on is I don't care what people think and won't waste my time with people who aren't interesting to me. I also, occasionally, quite enjoy boring people who think what I have to say is boring them... I use their politness against them...

But above and beyond I think it's really al about removing the self or as Miss Hepburn suggests, it's about playing with your idea of self, realising it's just a role you play. A tool you use to learn... you throw it out there and watch what happens.

'Cause what we're laughing at, with this chap and his low self esteem, is this role he's playing which he's forgotten he's playing... he takes it so seriously and believes in it so much it's just complete farce. He believes his own myth.

Observations:

Like H:O:R:A:C:E's excellent simply and clear post,
self esteem is what you yourself determine by valuing your self, not by how others value you or treat you, interact with you.

I grew up with a very strong core belief i was worthless...why?
Because i was surrounded by people who either disliked me or were incapable of loving me how i needed to be loved.
So in my child level of intellect i concluded that i must actually be worthless because no one loved me.
Never did i consider that others had problems till my intellect and self trust developed later in my adult state.

I whole heartedly agree with H:O:R:A:C:E...adding, or me, that state is something i had to develop, because as a child, living in an interactive reality,
i naively (normal child's lack of insight and understanding) relied on externals for feedback when evaluating myself.

Child, who of course lacks knowledge, thinks, "in order to know if i am a good person, i need to do somethng and someone will tell me i did good."
"and in order to know if i am bad person, i need to do something and someone will tell me i did bad"

A child is like," i don't know much about this reality or who i am, please teach me, i need info from others i trust, show me."
A child, will lack self trust in their ability to reason/discern, so they trust others for this information.
Parents being the top of the list, then siblings, relatives, friends, perhaps an authoritive figure, teacher, priest, pastor, police, even a lollypop person.

But in doing so, the child learns to develop their identity based on what others think, not what the child thinks.
The child grows up, usually with this thinking process hidden in the subconscious, that "I am XYZ, according to the responses i see in others."
Teenage years is when the child has an awakening and starts to become self aware and develop their own perception about life and themself.
"Thanks for the guidance mom and pops but i am my own person now, i'll take it from here"
Or " I hate you, stop telling me what to do, gosh old people are so stupid"
There's many ways a teenage goes through the relying on others to relying on self transition.
For some it's a pleasant enlightening experience, for others it';s confusing emotionally charged hell.

Anyways...
But what if the others that you rely on, trust and believe, are imperfect and maybe messed up enough to give you incorrect feedback info?
Then your self worth, your identity that is based on others will be incorrect.

A boy who grew up with wolves, acted like a wolf, even though he was a human.
A boy who grows up with humans, will act like a human.

Originally Posted by Sungirl

Well, I feel that when I am talking to my father he gets bored of my babbling. I can see it in his face. Luckily I don't live at home any more but it still happens.

You could ask him if he is bored and if he is ask him some more questions about exactly whhy he finds the topic boring.
Is it because he doesn't want to listento you, or the topic is boring, or perhaps it's how you talk.

My dawat, in teen years usd to get quite angry with me because i would get too deep into an answer for here, when all she wanted was a yes or no answer.
She enjoyed the explanetory answers i gave before she was a teenager.
Her anger does not mean she hates me, it meant my long answers frustrated her.

An observation i read many moons ago still resides clearly in me...
"There are no problem children, only children with problems"
Your dad being bored does not necesarily mean you are a boring perosn, it may simply mean that particular discussion bored him.

At work my differing views challenge people. I don't mean I set about to challenge them but there is one person specifically that finds my differing opinions hard.. so I keep them to myself now because I feel they are not acceptable.

If i may focus on your word usage Sungirl, you have said "not acceptable"
and if i may theorise, there is a person at work who does not accept your view,
to that person your view is unacceptable, but somewhere along the line you have agreed by saying,"because I feel they are not acceptable." Notice how you did not say, "because i feel they are unacceptable to him or others."
You have taken their view and made it your own, i suspect, unknowingly you have done this.

You share your view because to you it's as aceeptable as everyone elses, but when another strongly conveys that your view is unacceptable, you take on their belief.
You are relying on the other to determine how you should behave. aka oyur self esteem, self worth is based on the person who does not like your view.

Have you considerd that this person who does not like your view has a problem with listening to views different from his/hers?
Are you not equal to other people, that everyone can have a personal view?
Why do you accept this other person's view that your view is less than theirs?
Just because someone doesn't like your view, this does not mean your view is of no or lesser value.

I have also realised that for some reason I find I want to disagree with people almost for the sake of it. It's bugging me so it must be annoying to others too. I used to think it was because I support the underdog and sometimes it still is, other times it's because I see more than one side to a situation.. but sometimes it's just because I don't want to be the same as them. I am still working through understanding why I do this, but I know I need to change it.

Self exploration, as you are doing here, is where you will develop your self trust and love, your self worth.

After that it's just that I feel that I recognise that I need to express something and be heard and I get it all wrong.

Is your conclusion that you get it all wrong based on your own self assessment or on the responses you get from others?
If you say something and the other gets upset, this does not automatically mean you did anything wrong.

During my painful mariage breakup, i began my self discovery journey, and i came a cross a most remarkable book, Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud.
In this book it speaks of personal boundaries and how if you don't have any, you will allow people to do anything to you,
even though you do not like what thye are doing.
But as you develop or discover your perosnal boundaries and rightfully enforce them, some people will not like the new you and will react unpleasantly toward you.

EG: You have a best friend and you are inseparable for many years. Though thre is one thing that really grates you about them,
and that is out of the blue, seemingly unconnected to the conversation at hand, they throw in a fairly nasty insult about you,
Of course they are smiling, they are joking, mucking about, but it hurts you non the less, and you feel there's just something not right about these continuous jabs.
So asserting your personal boundary, you explain how hurt you feel when they do this and you politely request they stop.
Well, your friend who is so used to how things are, does not want to you to chnage, they like that they can insult you and you don't do anything about it,
and the friend has a big hissy fit proclaiming you are messed up blah blah blah.

Just because someone has a hissy fit because of what you've done or said, does nopt automatically mean you actually did something wrong.
You have to consider that thte other person may have issues, just like we all do.

Just looking for how to build my own self esteem.. maybe although I think I love myself enough for others to love me I don't actually and that is being mirrored back to me.

Another person is not a mirror.
Each person is an individual with unique traits.
Sometimes there are similarities, sometimes there are not.

Self esteem, self worth, self love is you evaluate yourself separate from what others think of you.
In the same way you can value a painting without requring another's opinion, you can value yourself without other's opinions.

When you are fully loving, accepting, appreciating yourself, your attributes, your mad skills, your personality,
all love from others is a bonus, and all hatred from others sim0ly does not bother you because you are in a secure trusting relationship with yourself.

When the herd mentality declares, "oh look at him/her, s/he's up themself because they love themself,
they are only expressing that they haven't yet reached the joy, empowerment and freedom that comes from deeply accepting, appreciating and loving oneself, as it should naturally be.

This does not occur overnight, but as long as you make progress you will succeed.

"If you want to follow me to freedom, be prepared to swim upstream, against the river of conditioning.
Be prepared to grapple continuously with the fierce flow of negative mental currents. In time our strokes will become effortless and our sense of purpose irresistible." - Buddha

I've been sorting my inner world out in a conscious proactive way for 20+ years, i was so full of self hate that suicidal thoughts were my constant companion for most of my life.
But now, due to a continuous exploration through a lot of dark valleys i am now humbly and with much reverent gratitude,
madly in love with the this incredibly insightful, compassionate, funny, beautiful, strong willed, steadfast, gentle, inquisitive, peaceful, joyful and imperfect person known as Mountain-Goat.
That's my self assessment. And no, that's not being up myself, that's being within myself. That is knowing myself.
And as a unique individual, there is no thought that i am less or more than others.
How can i logically, rationally and honestly compare my unique self to another unique person?

Originally Posted by Sungirl

What did you do?

I read Nathaniel Branden's The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem, and that helped, though it was difficult to read. It was like getting a kick in the butt. It is also very informative and helps one to understand what self-esteem is.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Thanks everyone for your posts.

Mountain-Goat, thank you for taking the time to write all that. You hit the nail on the head in what you say about boundaries. I have never learned to set boundaries; both for the lead I take emotionally from others as to my worth but also how I allow people to treat me. In fact it's how I allow other people to treat me that is currently causing me problems.

I realise that the period when I was a teenager learning to set my own boundaries I was in a very very dysfunctional relationship where I was completely powerless. I have no idea how to take back my power and ask for my needs to be heard. Even now if I ask my husband to do something for me he either pulls a face and I end up doing it or he says he will do it and never get round to it.

I am coming to the understanding that it is ok for me to have opinions that others don't agree with, but when the response is so powerful (as it is at work) it's hard to stand my ground... so I realise that in this situation it's not actually worth it... but I do accept that it is their responsibility how they react.

There is no way I could have that conversation with my father, just not possible and not really worth the stress it would cause.

I will read your post again as I am sure I will take more in.

Thanks

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Sungirl

I am coming to the understanding that it is ok for me to have opinions that others don't agree with, but when the response is so powerful (as it is at work) it's hard to stand my ground... so I realise that in this situation it's not actually worth it... but I do accept that it is their responsibility how they react.

What are you talking about at work? If people are getting upset it might be because you're doing something that's not appropriate in a work environment. Sometimes when we feel the need to tell others about things to help them, it's really our own issues coming out.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

What are you talking about at work? If people are getting upset it might be because you're doing something that's not appropriate in a work environment. Sometimes when we feel the need to tell others about things to help them, it's really our own issues coming out.

Nah, it's just nattering about stuff.

In the end the work situation is only a symptom and not really worth focusing on, I was just using it as an example of how I struggle to stand in my own power.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Sungirl

Nah, it's just nattering about stuff.

In the end the work situation is only a symptom and not really worth focusing on, I was just using it as an example of how I struggle to stand in my own power.

Well when people gang up on you it's hard for anyone to stand their ground.

Originally Posted by Sungirl

Thanks everyone for your posts.

Mountain-Goat, thank you for taking the time to write all that. You hit the nail on the head in what you say about boundaries. I have never learned to set boundaries; both for the lead I take emotionally from others as to my worth but also how I allow people to treat me. In fact it's how I allow other people to treat me that is currently causing me problems.

I realise that the period when I was a teenager learning to set my own boundaries I was in a very very dysfunctional relationship where I was completely powerless. I have no idea how to take back my power and ask for my needs to be heard. Even now if I ask my husband to do something for me he either pulls a face and I end up doing it or he says he will do it and never get round to it.

I am coming to the understanding that it is ok for me to have opinions that others don't agree with, but when the response is so powerful (as it is at work) it's hard to stand my ground... so I realise that in this situation it's not actually worth it... but I do accept that it is their responsibility how they react.

There is no way I could have that conversation with my father, just not possible and not really worth the stress it would cause.

I will read your post again as I am sure I will take more in.

Thanks

Your most welcome Sungirl.
I consider you to be of such value that i joyfully choose to spend time conversing with you.

I too had no boundaries. I was not even aware of such a thing as a personal boundary until i read the book.
I was a doormat for others through most of the phases of growing up.
You could physically hit me and i would just stand there and take it.
This happened far too many times for my liking during my younger years.
My personal opinion is that if i saw myself on the street i would pont and declare, "Whoa that dud e is severely messed up!"

From reading your latest post i thus highly recommend you get a copy of Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud.
Also, as i have a lot of admiration of Eudaimonist, to me, he expresses himself
as a very insightful and self sorted individual, grab a copy of his recommended book too.

I would also recommennd:
Healing the shame that binds you by John Bradshaw
Emotional Alchemy by Tara Bennett-Goleman.
The road less travelled by M. Scott Peck

They all interconnect with what you have shared about yourself.