Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08-09-2020, 11:10 AM
Lorelyen
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
My worry is that some events are used as excuses for more surveillance and control, at the cost of liberties and privacy. It may ''make sense'' to people in times of crisis but then such things become the new norm and we could be pushed towards more of that. That is my worry with modern tech and authorities' behaviour (behaving like they are our parents). In times of crisis they say they can just push crisis laws through in the name of your safety. There are constitutional rights that should not be bargained with, IMO.

.
Agreed about using the "emergency legislation" as an excuse for more surveillance. These temporary things (like income tax) have a habit of becoming a little too permanent.

The emergency regs were legislated in the UK but were as watertight as a colander, allowing the gov to invent any new whimsy it thinks of and it has too. Possibly the worst was "track and trace" but the tracker must withhold their name. So I could get a txt or call demanding my details...without knowing who's calling, whether it's a prank or whatever.

Unfortunately, the legislation can't be forced because there aren't the resources to do it. "Illegal raves", gatherings and so on are rife but there's little the police can do. I'm not allowed political comment on this forum which is just as well because it wouldn't be polite.

Even local lockdowns aren't working because people find ways to evade them.

Hey, this post is numbered 7777. It's a si-i-i-ign!
.
  #22  
Old 08-09-2020, 12:33 PM
Altair Altair is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Everywhere... and Nowhere
Posts: 6,631
  Altair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallow
That's extremely common, look at all the safety things in a vehicle, there a lot more than seat belts and air bags. There's laws companies have to follow for worker safety. You can't smoke in public places. You have to wear a shirt and shoes in public places. All in place for our own safety. Yes I agree, everyone should have choices.

Public (state owned) buildings are different, as are clothing rules if you work for someone else..
But what I wear on the street (mask, no mask, shorts + t-shirt, or whether I wish to wear a lady's dress!) is my choice, and what opinion I post on Facebook, or what shows I watch or what books I read, is my choice and/or my freedom of speech. If I abuse another FB member, then okay, that could be looked into by FB. But authorities shouldn't police opinion and thoughts*. ((*we might get there as well one day, with all the tech-in-brain development )).

In Australia we've seen examples of people being spied upon by the state ((..surveillance and lack of privacy..)) and then arrested and dragged away from their children because they posted unwanted opinions ((..no more freedom of speech..)). I know the argument they make, but I would say, better there be risks with liberties than more security.

That's just me, but I also think independent business owners should have their own rules on whether we can smoke or not ((say, in a pub)). When there's violence going on then it's a different story, but people can decide to smoke or not or be in the presence of smokers. You have to draw the line somewhere but surely adults can be informed about the risks and make a decision. Too much control and the genie is out of the bottle, then the ideological do-gooders can't stop themselves.

They can try as hard as they want controlling everything and structure every little detail with technology and surveillance... have everything be super-rational, but at the end of the day we're also simple animals. And I don't wish to see that side disappear in the name of whatever ideology we have (secular or spiritual).

Better there be more freedom with risks involved than have everything tightly controlled and safe, but sapped of all creativity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hallow
But you could be walking around sick and not know it and sneeze. The person walking behind you then can get sick too. By no choice of there own. Someone else could get sick because of your choice. Or the other way around.

That's always been the case, hasn't it? Whom among us would go to grandma or to a known HIV positive person when we had seasonal flu? You can also carry seasonal flu and not have symptoms or just sneeze a bit, but that could kill someone else. How many of us have been silent killers already??
I believe in personal responsibility and open communication, I believe this should be taught, instead of more state control in the name of the greater good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallow
Who cares if someone gets sick and then gets there whole family sick. As long as you can do whatever you want. Right?? I am not targeting you. It's everyone who disregards what there choice does to others.

It's okay, we just see these things differently. I get where you're coming from.
  #23  
Old 08-09-2020, 12:48 PM
Native spirit Native spirit is offline
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,138
  Native spirit's Avatar
In the uk wearing masks was not MANDATORY until the virus was dying down in stead of the begining. where is the Logic in that
but a lot of problems are made by media hype


Namaste
  #24  
Old 08-09-2020, 12:49 PM
hallow hallow is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Upper Midwest, U.S.A
Posts: 4,271
  hallow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Public (state owned) buildings are different, as are clothing rules if you work for someone else..
But what I wear on the street (mask, no mask, shorts + t-shirt, or whether I wish to wear a lady's dress!) is my choice, and what opinion I post on Facebook, or what shows I watch or what books I read, is my choice and/or my freedom of speech. If I abuse another FB member, then okay, that could be looked into by FB. But authorities shouldn't police opinion and thoughts*. ((*we might get there as well one day, with all the tech-in-brain development )).

In Australia we've seen examples of people being spied upon by the state ((..surveillance and lack of privacy..)) and then arrested and dragged away from their children because they posted unwanted opinions ((..no more freedom of speech..)). I know the argument they make, but I would say, better there be risks with liberties than more security.

That's just me, but I also think independent business owners should have their own rules on whether we can smoke or not ((say, in a pub)). When there's violence going on then it's a different story, but people can decide to smoke or not or be in the presence of smokers. You have to draw the line somewhere but surely adults can be informed about the risks and make a decision. Too much control and the genie is out of the bottle, then the ideological do-gooders can't stop themselves.

They can try as hard as they want controlling everything and structure every little detail with technology and surveillance... have everything be super-rational, but at the end of the day we're also simple animals. And I don't wish to see that side disappear in the name of whatever ideology we have (secular or spiritual).

Better there be more freedom with risks involved than have everything tightly controlled and safe, but sapped of all creativity.




That's always been the case, hasn't it? Whom among us would go to grandma or to a known HIV positive person when we had seasonal flu? You can also carry seasonal flu and not have symptoms or just sneeze a bit, but that could kill someone else. How many of us have been silent killers already??
I believe in personal responsibility and open communication, I believe this should be taught, instead of more state control in the name of the greater good.



It's okay, we just see these things differently. I get where you're coming from.
I guess I can only speak of what I know in the U.S. I agree people should communicate whatever problem they have. But they don't. In the U.S. there are very little restrictions on the virus. Everything including schools and colleges. And it shows in the number of cases we have. In the state i live in there's an average of 600 new cases a day. Last week we had over 1,000 new cases. And that's in a small population compared to the whole country. Look up how many new cases per day the entire U.S. has. It's crazy compared to the rest of the world.
__________________
No problems, only solutions.
  #25  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:07 PM
Starman Starman is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2016
Location: U.S. Southwest
Posts: 2,658
  Starman's Avatar
It just sounds like to me that Australia and the UK have a lot more restrictions around COVID-19 than the U.S. has. Right now in the U.S. restrictions are left up to the State government, that’s 50-States choosing their own way to handle this. Some States have more infections and deaths than others. Some States have more restrictions than others.

But there is no national mandate, except people are encouraged to wear masks in public, stay home if you are sick or have contact with someone who got infected, and social distance when you are in public.

Now businesses and schools have a lot more restrictions placed on them in the U.S. than does the general public. There is new information coming out just about everyday on COVID-19 and some of it is idiotic. Frankly, right now in California we are dealing with a lot more than just COVID-19. Nonetheless, face covering and social distancing is still encouraged.
  #26  
Old 08-09-2020, 02:14 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,332
 
This says it all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrPCgh4UkAU
  #27  
Old 08-09-2020, 02:36 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,048
  BigJohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native spirit
In the uk wearing masks was not MANDATORY until the virus was dying down in stead of the begining. where is the Logic in that
but a lot of problems are made by media hype


Namaste

but the mask has..... saved my life.

Ever since I had to wear my muzzle, I can no longer run out and bite the tires of the speeding cars any more!
__________________


 
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜

        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜


  #28  
Old 08-09-2020, 02:56 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,332
 
~~shakes head~~BigJohn, BigJohn.
  #29  
Old 08-09-2020, 03:50 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
In most places, even if not strictly enforced, there is a requirement to self isolate if sick, or if you were in contact with a sick person. Do you mean that you didn't do that? You just did it selectively, of the goodness of your heart? Even if you didn't give it directly to an older person, you may have given it to a younger person, who passed it along.

The masks make sense to the lay person, but there isn't a consensus among the medical providers and scientists. Why? The size of the virus is much smaller than the texture of the facial masks, and the virus seems to be airborn, so it doesn't need a carrier like spit.

I stayed home for the most part actually - complete self isolation, but went to the local park once or twice (keeping a good distance from others) and only after weeks and weeks of being sick.

I got it before it became "big news" and where I live, they were very lax in follow up and procedures. I self isolated, because I didn't want to risk spreading it - not because I was told to.

Actually, it's interesting re: masks because at the beginning of the news on Covid, I noticed many Asian people wearing masks (they were used to it from SARS I guess). Most other ethnicities didn't. I remember I said I would never wear one and it was disproven.

Well, lo and behold, now it's being proven that the efficacy of masks is there. Countries like Taiwan, South Korea etc. were very effective at combating the virus. Not countries like America who believe it's some huge violation of human rights to ask to take care of yourself and your neighbors.

And look, the virus evolves, the medical community strives to communicate messaging. Nurses and doctors used makeshift protection where they could. i.e. re-using masks etc. which are clearly effective in that context.

If it can help, I will and knowing what I do now, I'd be happy to participate to NOT furthering the virus - however small or big the role I play.

A woman spread COVID to 27 customers at a Starbucks. Its mask-wearing employees escaped infection -
https://fortune.com/2020/08/25/covid...sks-employees/
  #30  
Old 08-09-2020, 03:56 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native spirit
In the uk wearing masks was not MANDATORY until the virus was dying down in stead of the begining. where is the Logic in that
but a lot of problems are made by media hype


Namaste

Boris Johnson
Scott Morrison

All these populist leaders and their policies.

You see - I think that the difference between bad policies/over-reach and the desire for proper health management to contain this virus is becoming muddled.

The prior (if it happens) does not invalidate the latter's validity.

Wasn't the Australian PM the one who arrests journalists for keeping their source confidential?

JL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sYSyuuLk5g
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums