God in Buddhism

Pretty sure that's what it is.

The so-called "Two Truths" would be evident to any practicing Buddhist of realization, no need for theories and words. Sometimes students need frameworks, and this is a helpful one which enriches the intellectual understanding until one lives it more.

Jmv.

JL

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Gem

It's perfectly fine and people who find it interesting should go into it. I still maintain that some smartypants monk just made it up for sake of something else to say, but that's also OK, maybe it's better than saying the same old thing over and over again.

Religion and philosophy can be nice placeholders to point to or be representative of truths, but at some point, non-conceptual reality and "what is" is lived. Truth itself is the pointer. Exploring and living beyond the conceptual. Once one gets serious, and lives what the religion or philosophy pointed to, the pointing is not only not necessary, it is, in fact conceptual and keeps one living from and with the wrong reference point.

All of us who have been into things like Buddhism and philosophy a long time will notice they still react to various things in negative ways. Why is that? Well it's simple. We are still in the thought stream way too much, way too often, having it be our point of reference as we encounter and experience what is "out there." Really the thought stream is not "out there" at all. It is manufactured reality within us. Optional reality. Our attention does not have to be on it at anytime. It does not have to be experienced. But that takes commitment and self discipline and staying aware.

Speaking about this is not conceptual if we are aware of the non-attached state while we speak, and listen. But then if one is in a non-conceptual state, what interest is there in a description or pointing to it? None. Posts like this are meaningless. Empty words. As all words are empty. The now free of words and concepts is what is lived and held as the most preferred way to be.

I was going to say, things like the "two truths" are non-sense, but that depends. In conceptual living, we make things whatever we want, using language and thought. So someone could easily make such concepts into the most important holy thing and it would be to them. And the word "non-sense" is meaningless in itself. Adding interpretations to things in the thought stream is delusional, as the interpretations are also the thought stream.

The observer is the observed..... the same thing. The thinker is thought.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Religion and philosophy can be nice placeholders to point to or be representative of truths, but at some point, non-conceptual reality and "what is" is lived. Truth itself is the pointer. Exploring and living beyond the conceptual. Once one gets serious, and lives what the religion or philosophy pointed to, the pointing is not only not necessary, it is, in fact conceptual and keeps one living from and with the wrong reference point.

That's right. Buddhist philosophy merges the intellectual and practical component. Religion is irrelevant with respect to dhamma which universally applies to everyone regardless of their religion, tradition and what have you. I think religion is like a charade of costumes, symbols, repetition and icons, all of which are unimportant where dhamma is concerned. Hence it makes no difference what religion a person is, or isn't, and even a Buddhist can practice dhamma.

All of us who have been into things like Buddhism and philosophy a long time will notice they still react to various things in negative ways. Why is that? Well it's simple. We are still in the thought stream way too much, way too often, having it be our point of reference as we encounter and experience what is "out there." Really the thought stream is not "out there" at all. It is manufactured reality within us. Optional reality. Our attention does not have to be on it at anytime. It does not have to be experienced. But that takes commitment and self discipline and staying aware.

Yea, it isn't to be perfect, it's just to understand - in Buddhist terms - 'the cause'. It is hard, requires all of attention.

Speaking about this is not conceptual if we are aware of the non-attached state while we speak, and listen. But then if one is in a non-conceptual state, what interest is there in a description or pointing to it? None. Posts like this are meaningless. Empty words. As all words are empty. The now free of words and concepts is what is lived and held as the most preferred way to be.

I was going to say, things like the "two truths" are non-sense, but that depends. In conceptual living, we make things whatever we want, using language and thought. So someone could easily make such concepts into the most important holy thing and it would be to them. And the word "non-sense" is meaningless in itself. Adding interpretations to things in the thought stream is delusional, as the interpretations are also the thought stream.

The observer is the observed..... the same thing. The thinker is thought.

Well,to make the claim the observer is the observed seem like a truth statement, but it's actually like the subject of an indepth discussion and isn't like the 'right answer' or anything like that. There is not conclusion for the mind to grasp as knowledge, there's really only the truth: 'this is how it is' as it is experienced, in the way it is experienced by you. The only question is, are you paying attention.


In the Buddhist philosophy there are dependent origins, which basically means the experience materialises momentarily as consciousness with the senses and objects, not as a separate enduring self experiencing passing things, but a similtaneous, momentary arising of consciousness, but there a that which was never born and never dies beyond that, which is always a mystery and has no answers.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Gem

Well,to make the claim the observer is the observed seem like a truth statement, but it's actually like the subject of an indepth discussion and isn't like the 'right answer' or anything like that.

Yes it's only true if one sees or realizes that. Otherwise, the "observer" is taken to be the self. Continues to be projected as self.

"This is what I think about that thought...." As Krishnamurti said, there is a use for that. It's how we build and create. We need that to function in life. Krishnamurti's question just was, do we need that in all of life? Is there a part of life in which that identification can be discarded?

Thought is like a tool we use to do certain things. Using memory and learned knowledge and all of that. We create with this tool. But then to use it as such, while not identifying with it as self or identity.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Gem

The only question is, are you paying attention.

yes am I aware of what I am as distinct from the current mental content or interpretation

Originally Posted by Gem

In the Buddhist philosophy there are dependent origins, which basically means the experience materializes momentarily as consciousness with the senses and objects, not as a separate enduring self experiencing passing things, but a simultaneous, momentary arising of consciousness, but there a that which was never born and never dies beyond that, which is always a mystery and has no answers.

That is always here and has always been here. That is me... and everything. It's like a golden needle in a haystack. We are giving our attention over to all that hay. But this body and mind we are merged with is such...this culture....these relationships... are like a laser pointer on a wall to a cat.... just..... can't..... look.... away.... lol.

I'm sorry, but this thing over here.... it's just too interesting..... she said this and that.... and I think this and that.... and he said this.... and this here.....

To turn around and see the divine....! To pursue that above all else. and then the How? How is also that laser pointer on the wall.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

All are sinners according to the Catholic faith. Not one person is without sin.

Luke 5:21-22 - Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I didn't come to invite good people to turn to God. I came to invite sinners."

Logically, if one was not a sinner or "good people", they have no use for a Religion. Like how if one was enlightened and knew their true nature, what use would Buddhism be for them or meditation or anything else?

If one has it in their hand, there is no need to look for it elsewhere or go somewhere else for it.

The above Jesus quote may be confusing to some, but remember Jesus did not start a religion or a church. So the idea that some were good and not sinners and had no need for his teachings was fine with him.

Jesus did not heal anyone, God did, through his influence, because he knew that people were not sick. He knew that their thoughts created their reality, so he told them to not speak of their healing to anyone, as those common folk, just like today, always talk you back into your illness. "because that is the reality and status quo" for undeliberate reality observers and regurgitators of reality, who forgotten that they are an extension of God Consciousness and are in actual fact CREATORS of reality, not observers. So they observe, not knowing they create it by the mere observation of it.

Meditation is also not the point, but the point is to doing of the non-doing, which is the act of non-action of allowing, which is the allowing of the healing of all healings. Which is to simply be the natural ever self healing self replenishing nature that is of our divine God Hood.

To simply allow the self to be the self.


Yes there are crazy things, but it's not even the result of a misunderstanding, when the misunderstanding is the result of forgetfulness. The remembering of God Consciousness is SO EASY AND EFFORTLESS that it cannot be done... by action. No amount of effort will ever yield any results. The only thing we can do is either allow it or not.

Most people choose to do things, of which 95% is uninspired action, that leads to self-fulfilling prophecies of further disembodied forgetfulness. When few who learn the art of allowing, are more powerful than million who are not. But their influence cannot reach those who need it the most, because the human collective needs to AGREE to allow, because free will is eternal. So by LAW you can say that every negative experience is chosen by the individual themselves. But there is a conflict because those choices were not made from God Consciousness, but from an undeliberate unconscious state of being, where one does not know that they are creator of reality.

God is the one that loves so eternally and unconditionally, that we're even allowed to make these disembodied choices. And calls us forth anyway. To our ultimate destiny. Never endingly. the buddha or jesus being just one tiny example in the scope of eternity and infinity. Nothing can ever undo God, that is why suffering never ends. Only if we could become disconnected from God, then our suffering would end. But then also, ALL OF EXISTENCE would end, which is eternally impossible. There is no room in non-existence for that which exists. Furthermore, non-existence literally by its very definition DOES NOT EXIST.

There is only God. So instant healing is not even easy, if one does not instantly heal, they are doing something that is preventing that from happening. Usually unconsciously, habbitually and undeliberately. The source of that is also of innocence. Of unconditional love and unwavering faith. Just like how the devil refused to take even one step away from God, even if its destiny is to come closer to god by doing so. It is pure innocence that is of the greatest evil. And thus no ammount of suffering will ever change anything.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

I can maybe make the two truths doctrine easier for people to understand by using a simple real life example.

You walk into your kitchen and find a giant pile of dirty dishes and a big mess. The kitchen counters littered with dirty plates and silverware and trash, a moldy orange, pots and pans with crusty food in them etc.

This produces a "not so great" feeling in you. You sigh. "It's never ending," you think to yourself feeling discouraged.

Ok this is the first truth. Normal life as we live and experience it. The conventional truth. The two truths are about understanding what is going on here so here is the explanation of the convention truth or reality.

Why did we encounter "a not so great experience" when we walked into the kitchen and saw the big mess? There are actually a lot of reasons why this occurred. It is very complex but I will try to keep it simple.

#1. There is programming in our brains. Simple. Your brain produced a bunch of thoughts in response to what you encountered, that big mess in the kitchen. These thoughts are a result of our conditioning, habits, memory and on and on. We really don't have to get too much into this as it is over our pay grade. We don't have to understand everything about the computer that is our brains, just be aware of where it impacts us, what is on the screen and the feelings those come with. It starts with thoughts. That's where the connection first occurs. But then with those thoughts come "feelings." This is not rocket science either. The brain makes chemicals. Chemicals that make us feel sensations of various kinds. It's how the brain makes thoughts more real. Thoughts produce a feeling as well. They are linked, the thought and the feeling that comes with it.

So that's the first truth, our normal lives. Now there is also the ultimate truth. What is that about?

It's basically someone who understands the conventional truth and thus, is unaffected by it. (Understanding is not just intellectual, it has to be experience based as well.) Let's imagine someone who is aware of that whole mechanism of "normal life" and prefers a life without those up's and down's in feeling.

They walk into the kitchen, see the mess, and have no interest in interpreting it in any kind of "personal" way. Why? Because they have had some insights into this whole conventional process. They understand though some experiences they have had, that life without these bad feelings is better. Every moment can be light and happy no matter what we are doing or encountering externally.

Imagine you are walking on a beach in Hawaii or doing that pile of dirty dishes at home..... what makes one better than the other? This may be hard to accept, but it is true, there is no real difference. The mind makes the difference. The brain, using thought and chemicals. There is zero real difference. One can see no difference, experience no difference, but to do that, one has to live free of the conventional truths that are presented to us.

So one walks into the kitchen, happy and light, sees the big mess, a thought may come, one is aware of it's unreality, and so it produces no effect, no feelings, one is not judging the mess as good or bad, it just is, like everything just is, one remains happy and light and gets to work cleaning that kitchen. That is living with ultimate truth.

The two truths are just that. These Buddhist teachers get into more complexity like...

saṁvṛti - elements of conventional truth:

complete covering or the 'screen' of ignorance which hides truth
existence or origination through dependence, mutual conditioning

In other words, not understanding what is going on in normal everyday living modes, conditioned habitual thinking etc.....

Then also, this idea of "emptiness" as it relates to the "ultimate truth" but this is just about the fact that one walks around aware of the "ultimate truth" life unidentified with manufactured conventional.

Also, unstated in these types of explanations, is we are love, compassion etc. That is important to understand as well. When we discard being an ego, (conventional truth) we project what we are free of such, a being in harmony with all else.

when you talk about truth and relativity. You talk about bliss and suffering. Most people think that suffering exists and therefor we have to deal with it. But they dont understand that the suffering is tied to the bliss of the soul which is an undisconnectable extension of God. And since the soul and god is eternally ever expanding, your suffering literally DOES NOT EXIST. It is a resistance to the flow of energy which stems from the ever expanse of bliss consciousness. OF which we are inseperable extensions. So when one suffers, that is when the most bliss is available. That is why we suffer to the degree that bliss is readily available to us.

bliss and suffering are energies, relatives. relativities of the very foundation of existence, as energy motional, emotional, energies. So when you find a disgusting kitchen, and you feel bad, that means that your soul has found the most clean kitchen that it has ever witnessed. And when ones soul expands, and they do not go with it, they suffer. Not because suffering is unavoidable, but because BLISS is unavoidable, and when one avoids it on purpose, they suffer. So imagine how close at hand the "thought" of a clean kitchen is, in that moment that you're looking at a disgusting kitchen? Well? How close? They are so close, that they are in actual fact, inseperable. The very pain exists because the clean kitchen is literally TRYING TO BIRTH itself into ones consciousness, and one is RESISTING the birthing of this clean kitchen within their own consciousness. The reason they RESIST is because they believe that the clean kitchen thought will cause more pain, when in reality, the disgusting kitchen causes pain. Where as the clean kitchen thought, brings with it ideas and inspiration and natural effortless unfoldment of the natural path of LEAST RESISTANCE (bliss) conscious realisation for the FULL BLOWN MANIFESTATIONAL realisation of the TRUE ESSENCE of BLISS and CLEAN KITCHEN and FULFILLMENT of TRUE ALL PURE DESIRE for the ETERNAL EVERLASTING JOYFUL DESIRED JOOOOOOUUUUURNEY towards the kitchen that becomes cleaner than it has ever been become EVER BEFORE LIKE UNTO IT EVER, or will ever be like unto it ever again, and again and again, forevermore cleaner kitchen.

That kitchen that has become cleaner than it has ever been before. It already exists. Otherwise the individual would not feel pain in believing in something other, and investing their attention unto something else. Because even tho the cleaner than ever before kitchen is there. the reason that people suffer, is because they FORGOT that it is not about the destiny, but the eternal journey. that is of joy. OF enjoying cleaning a kitchen unlike you have ever cleaned it before. And discovering even new things of how wonderfully enjoyable it can truely be to clean it and learn new ways to clean it even better than you've ever cleaned it before. And even the joy of failing and not caring that you have failed. And even the joy of letting it stink and not caring. Endless possibilities and probabilities. All due to the glorified nature of true free will god consciousness of ever expanding bliss.

But again, this is just one example. The kitchen may also be there to actually enjoy filth. And appreciate it. In ways you've never learned to appreciate and understand and acknowledge the value of filth. Etc. Because again, it is RELATIVE. And free will is always the winner of the day. We get to define everything and we get to create everything. by simple conscious choices of free will. And God supports all and loves all unconditionally. Forevermore. There is no judgement in God, because there is no fear in God, and no limitation in and of God. Ever.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

yes am I aware of what I am as distinct from the current mental content or interpretation



That is always here and has always been here. That is me... and everything. It's like a golden needle in a haystack. We are giving our attention over to all that hay. But this body and mind we are merged with is such...this culture....these relationships... are like a laser pointer on a wall to a cat.... just..... can't..... look.... away.... lol.

I'm sorry, but this thing over here.... it's just too interesting..... she said this and that.... and I think this and that.... and he said this.... and this here.....

To turn around and see the divine....! To pursue that above all else. and then the How? How is also that laser pointer on the wall.

Because again, you have not understood that ALL that exists is relative. That you create it not by thought or physical manifestation, but by EMOTION, that your eternity is an energy motional journey. Emotionaly journey. Vibrational journey. So when you feel lost and confused, that is an energy, that occurs, because your soul has expanded into ABSOLUTE PURE PRESTINE CLARITY.

And you get to enjoy the journey of going from confusion to clarity! Confusion isnt bad, because how could you enjoy clarity if there exists no confusion?! These energies are merely clay for your consciousness to mold them. Into absolute freedom of any possible desire you may so create so true to your heart of inseperable "God Hoodness." So if you enjoy your confusion and value it and appreciate it, even the appreciate the negative emotion that doesnt feel good that is of that, then you can very easily shift the focus and attention unto clarity and enjoy that. And literally witnesss your absolute CREATORHOOD of infinite and eternal empowerment and freedom. Just like you will find EVERMORE EVEREXPANDINGLY new things to enjoy forevermore, because there is no end. Because the variety never ends. So this confusion is like "clay" that you always got. And all of it is made out of you, for you, with you, through you, as you, etc.

And the joy is in the journey. The energy motional journey. It's like listening to a classical music. You hear what you are a vibrational match to. Your consciousness is the one defining all of it. So you can never say that your experience is bad, because your experience is literally MADE OUT OF YOU. And you always remind yourself of what you appreciate the most. Like absolute clarity and unwavering knowingness and confidence. But its not that simple. To be put into words. We simply feel our way to our own ever expanding knowingness, because we are the creators of it. We have been doing this for an eternity. It's impossible that you don't know what you're doing. Because even the idea that you forgot that you know what you're doing, is an experience you've already created infinite versions of and this here and now version is again unlike any that you've ever created before it, or will ever create like unto it ever again and again and again, 5 billion times per second. That is how powerful you are.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

yes am I aware of what I am as distinct from the current mental content or interpretation



That is always here and has always been here. That is me... and everything. It's like a golden needle in a haystack. We are giving our attention over to all that hay. But this body and mind we are merged with is such...this culture....these relationships... are like a laser pointer on a wall to a cat.... just..... can't..... look.... away.... lol.

That's funny!

I'm sorry, but this thing over here.... it's just too interesting..... she said this and that.... and I think this and that.... and he said this.... and this here.....

To turn around and see the divine....! To pursue that above all else. and then the How? How is also that laser pointer on the wall.

Yes, 'how' is the distraction - 'what' is the understanding, and if you know what is is, you automatically know 'how' to do it. Most teachers are giving out instruction on how to do it, but nearly all of them require your doing. Control breathing, count breaths, visualise a thingy, say a mantra etc, etc, etc... which just generates volition, which implies desire... and perhaps these exercises have their own particular benefits, but meditation itself is the cessation of volition, the cessation of action and reaction, or in other words, to stop and look. Right now you can just stop and notice what this experience is lie, just as it is, without tryong to makes it other than it is, and in that moment you stop. That's it. Ok so nothing 'special' happened, it's just the same olds room, the same sensations entirely, but you paid attention, knew what it was actually like, lived in the actuality of the moment, and as banal and ordinary that is, it is the fundamental principle of meditation - stop doing and start looking.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

It is pure innocence that is of the greatest evil.

Is this what you intended to say here, Ewwerrin?

Thanks,

JL