God in Buddhism

[Phaelyn]

The Two-Fold Path.

Right reaction.
Right desire.

This school of Buddhism may become popular as the teachings are easy to memorize.

I may add a couple...

The Four-Fold Path

Right interaction.
Right relationship.
Right reaction.
Right desire.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

The Two-Fold Path.

Right reaction.
Right desire.

This school of Buddhism may become popular as the teachings are easy to memorize.

I may add a couple...

The Four-Fold Path

Right interaction.
Right relationship.
Right reaction.
Right desire.

There all-right..

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Gem

meditation (ie minfdfulness) is by definition non-reactive,

Both are a reaction ~ to a non-meditative or non-mindful state.

Originally Posted by Gem

The objective there is not to get something or have some sort of desirable experience, but to see what is true, as it is, just the way it is.

Why would anybody want to see what is true or just the way it is, if there was nothing pleasurable about it? Buddha (before enlightenment) was not seeking to experience "what is" as what is was suffering for him.... then when he reached a non-suffering experience he preferred it... it was better than experiencing suffering...non-suffering (enlightenment - liberation) is a desirable experience, a better one.

Originally Posted by Gem

Reactivity is defined here as aversion toward,

Aversion toward ignorance, un-awareness, conflict, ...where "reactivity" towards such leads to the opposite...enlightenment/liberation.... understanding, awareness, no conflict.

Originally Posted by Gem

and try to keep a perfectly even keel no matter what happens. You'll be fine for a while, but at some point reach a limitation and be unable to keep an even keel,

Like be unattached to our habitual conditioned mind stream, be humble, selfless, and we have no conflicts with others, but at some point we return to old habits, are identifying with our arising negative thoughts, and we react to another with some imposed mind created conflict. But this whole thing is like an exercise, and the more we exercise, the stronger we become. The "fails" serve to remind us to "practice" or exercise this particular thing.

[sky]

So in mindfulness, or full mindedness, all misery and all happiness are of equal value: no preferences. Happiness is this way. Misery is this way. They arise and they cease. Happiness is still happiness; it's not misery. And misery is still misery; it's not happiness. But it is what it is. And it's nobody's and it's only that much. And we don't suffer from it. We accept it, we know it and we understand it. All that arises ceases. All dhamma is not self.

'The mind of an enlightened human being is flexible;
the mind of an ignorant person is fixed."

Ajahn Sumedho.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Both are a reaction ~ to a non-meditative or non-mindful state.



Why would anybody want to see what is true or just the way it is, if there was nothing pleasurable about it? Buddha (before enlightenment) was not seeking to experience "what is" as what is was suffering for him.... then when he reached a non-suffering experience he preferred it... it was better than experiencing suffering...non-suffering (enlightenment - liberation) is a desirable experience, a better one.



Aversion toward ignorance, un-awareness, conflict, ...where "reactivity" towards such leads to the opposite...enlightenment/liberation.... understanding, awareness, no conflict.



Like be unattached to our habitual conditioned mind stream, be humble, selfless, and we have no conflicts with others, but at some point we return to old habits, are identifying with our arising negative thoughts, and we react to another with some imposed mind created conflict. But this whole thing is like an exercise, and the more we exercise, the stronger we become. The "fails" serve to remind us to "practice" or exercise this particular thing.

' Why would anybody want to see what is true or just the way it is, if there was nothing pleasurable about it? '


The pleasure comes from seeing things the way they are rather than to see things the way we ' think ' they are...

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by sky123

' Why would anybody want to see what is true or just the way it is, if there was nothing pleasurable about it? '


The pleasure comes from seeing things the way they are rather than to see things the way we ' think ' they are...

quite often, seeing things the way they are does not lead to pleasure... and pleasure seekers will often tell themselves all sorts of pleasant lies...

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sky123

The pleasure comes from seeing things the way they are rather than to see things the way we ' think ' they are...

Yes we get pleasure from insights, from new understanding, from higher awareness. Enlightenment or liberation is highly pleasurable, mindfulness properly executed is extremely pleasurable, selflessness is pleasurable. But these are refined and subtle pleasures, one has to have an interest in them and not many do.

Like the pleasure of being selfless, humble, without needing or wanting to be anything special, without needing or wanting to be important. Being content with what is without a desire to change anything. That pleasure is very different from the pleasure of ego, of being famous and rich and powerful and important. Both are pleasures, but the selfless pleasure can't be taken from you. It is a higher way to find pleasure. The ego way, well that can't be held forever, one gets old, loses power and importance. Fame fades.

Everything is built around pleasure even liberation. But see most pleasures have a negative side. Like sugar and food is a pleasure, indulge in that too much one gets serious health problems that lead to suffering. Sex is a pleasure, too much in the wrong ways, one can suffer a lot and cause suffering in others. So we live life after life trying to find the highest best pleasures which are the spiritual ones.

It's like relationships. We start out seeking pleasure in relationships in the most selfish self centered ways. These lead to conflicts, fights, maybe even jail... so from those experiences we learn.....like learn I can't force another to pleasure me, better to have it be mutual choice.... so learn to be nice to get others to pleasure us, treat others as we want to be treated.... keep learning and refining who and what we are.... all in the pursuit of pleasure. Over a lot of lives, we learn to refine what we are and do in the pursuit of pleasure.

With a lot of experience and lives, conflicts serve to point out to us more things to drop in our pursuit of the ultimate pleasure. And like you say, the highest pleasure is to have no preference at all.... we accept whatever is that we cannot change in peace. We don't have internal fights with ourselves or others. Steal my coat, I'll give you my watch...no selfishness. To be and do nothing that may cause a conflict with another.

It's like a series of colanders stacked on top of each other, the one at the top with the biggest holes. The next one down, slightly smaller holes.... and the one way down on the bottom with microscopic holes... you start out a big clump of salt, in the top colander..... self centered, selfish, prone to negative emotions and doings....seeking pleasure.....you get banged up from conflicts, learn some stuff...... from all the banging into others you get a little smaller, more refined, you learn from these experiences...then if you get small enough you slip down to the next colander.....way down at the bottom microscopic crystals of salt, selfless, never in conflict with anybody or anything, unconditionally loving, non judgmental.... they slip through and are never seen on earth again...off we go to seek pleasure in more and more refined ways..... in other worlds, higher planes of existence.

[winter light]

Originally Posted by sentient

I don’t know – just going bla-bla-bla here.

In the discussion forum this deep listening is more difficult, because well, things are discussed.

In mindfulness meditation we learn to listen within, - hold space for what is, whatever that is …

But do we open up/receive another’s presence in the same way & hold the same space for him/her or is there a barrier, resistance to it ….

Do we suddenly need to recite a rulebook in the other person’s face or quickly have to overlay & fill that space with our opinions like it was a competition …

Or do we need to attach and cling ….. or quickly go into opposition stance …

Rumi’s take on deep listening:
"There is a moon inside every human being
Learn to be companions with it
Give more of your life to this listening"

And maybe one day ‘we both’ can enter into deep silence and stillness - listening the same moon.

(but it can get freaky, if the other freaks out at the ‘nonduality boundary’, so I guess, best not push it, but bit by bit learn to trust that moon within).

And what if – that moon is our ‘ticket’ to “Pure Lands.”

What if - on the purest moon – Buddha sits?

*

The butterfly alights
On the pointing finger
And purpose is known

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Yes we get pleasure from insights, from new understanding, from higher awareness. Enlightenment or liberation is highly pleasurable, mindfulness properly executed is extremely pleasurable, selflessness is pleasurable. But these are refined and subtle pleasures, one has to have an interest in them and not many do.

Like the pleasure of being selfless, humble, without needing or wanting to be anything special, without needing or wanting to be important. Being content with what is without a desire to change anything. That pleasure is very different from the pleasure of ego, of being famous and rich and powerful and important. Both are pleasures, but the selfless pleasure can't be taken from you. It is a higher way to find pleasure. The ego way, well that can't be held forever, one gets old, loses power and importance. Fame fades.

Everything is built around pleasure even liberation. But see most pleasures have a negative side. Like sugar and food is a pleasure, indulge in that too much one gets serious health problems that lead to suffering. Sex is a pleasure, too much in the wrong ways, one can suffer a lot and cause suffering in others. So we live life after life trying to find the highest best pleasures which are the spiritual ones.

It's like relationships. We start out seeking pleasure in relationships in the most selfish self centered ways. These lead to conflicts, fights, maybe even jail... so from those experiences we learn.....like learn I can't force another to pleasure me, better to have it be mutual choice.... so learn to be nice to get others to pleasure us, treat others as we want to be treated.... keep learning and refining who and what we are.... all in the pursuit of pleasure. Over a lot of lives, we learn to refine what we are and do in the pursuit of pleasure.

With a lot of experience and lives, conflicts serve to point out to us more things to drop in our pursuit of the ultimate pleasure. And like you say, the highest pleasure is to have no preference at all.... we accept whatever is that we cannot change in peace. We don't have internal fights with ourselves or others. Steal my coat, I'll give you my watch...no selfishness. To be and do nothing that may cause a conflict with another.

It's like a series of colanders stacked on top of each other, the one at the top with the biggest holes. The next one down, slightly smaller holes.... and the one way down on the bottom with microscopic holes... you start out a big clump of salt, in the top colander..... self centered, selfish, prone to negative emotions and doings....seeking pleasure.....you get banged up from conflicts, learn some stuff...... from all the banging into others you get a little smaller, more refined, you learn from these experiences...then if you get small enough you slip down to the next colander.....way down at the bottom microscopic crystals of salt, selfless, never in conflict with anybody or anything, unconditionally loving, non judgmental.... they slip through and are never seen on earth again...off we go to seek pleasure in more and more refined ways..... in other worlds, higher planes of existence.

' Mindfulness can protect us from the dangers of worldly pleasures while providing us with a kind of pleasure that has no downside. The pleasure of a calm and alert mind further promotes concentration, supports our general well-being, and helps motivate us to practice and continue along the Eightfold Path. By doing that, it multiplies our opportunities to enjoy this pleasure.'




' When pleasant feelings arise in a well taught noble disciple . . . he does not lust after pleasure . . .When those pleasant feelings cease, it does give even the noble disciple painful feelings but “he does not sorrow, grieve and lament .'

The Greater Discourse to Saccaka, MN 36.

[Ewwerrin]

This message is for whoever enjoys reading it:

If buddha is free from reincarnation, then that must imply, NO ONE CAN EVER BECOME A BUDDHA. AND IF THEY SUCCEED, THEN BUDDHISM HAS FAILED.

So, in english language, there is no buddhism. Not to mention every single language, including english, CHANGES EVERY SINGLE DAY. THE PAST IS ALWAYS IRRELEVANT. INCLUDING THE ENGLISH HISTORY D O E S N O T E X I S T ! ! !

GOD DOES NOT USE WORDS. BUT SPEAKS IN VIBRATION. BUDDHA CAN ONLY ENERGY MOTIONALLY (EMOTIONALLY) COMMUNICATE THE STATE OF ENERGY MOTIONAL AWARENESS CONSCIOUSNESS BLISS. BUDDHA IS NOT PHYSICAL. NEVER HAS BEEN. THIS COMMUNICATION HAPPENS IN ENERGY. IT IS ETERNAL OMNI PRESENT. NOT IN PHYSICAL BODY, NOT IN SOUND. NOT IN SIGHT. BUT IN ENERGY. NOT IN TOUCH. BUT IN NON-PHYSICAL PURE POSITIVE ENERGY. NON-CONTRADICTED PURE POSITIVE ENERGY LIKE BLISS.

Words will never be able to teach you this. Only the emotion. CAN HELP YOU KNOW. Do you feel like you are feeling god? If you even think 1 second, YOU ARE NOT FEELING GOD!

THERE IS NO SINGLE DOUBT, QUESTION OR WORD, when you are aware of God. Or buddha consciousness. Or nirvana. Or bliss. There is only infinite knowingness. And when you find a thought of discordance or resistance, you will feel fear. But forcing nirvana upon someone who has resistance, is like burning them alife. Not good! Dont wake someone up if they are not ready to be awakened.

However, it is relative. And dont be hard on yourself if you're not experiencing nirvana. Even Jesus was not always in nirvana. We are human beings. Take it easy. And just hold faith. I hold faith with you. That one day all of humanity will be in nirvana. Not just trying to be. But naturally be always in nirvana. As our natural state of being. That nothing can overcome it or block it. Or resist it. Because by its very nature of being, nirvana is of the IRRESISTABLE frequency. It is of SOURCE CONSCIOUSNESS, SOURCE ENERGY. IT IS OF OUR TRUE NATURE. ALSO AS HUMAN BEINGS.

So by its very definition, Not being in Nirvana is IMPOSSIBLE! IT IS A PARADOX. LAO TZU KNEW THIS. WE ARE ENVELOPED BY THE TWO/TRUE DRAGONS. YOU ARE NOT EXPERIENCING A REALITY. THIS EXISTENCE IS AN EXPERIMENT. A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM. TO EXPERIENCE THAT IS NOT OF NIRVANA. BECAUSE NIRVANA IS THE ONLY THING THAT EXISTS. THEREFOR WE CREATED THIS DREAM TO FORGET THAT NIRVANA EXISTS. BUT WE ARE NO LONGER ABLE TO REMEMBER THIS. BECAUSE IT IS A DREAM! YOUR MEMORY WORKS DIFFERENTLY IN THE DREAM. WE HAVE CREATED THE NATURE OF FORGETFULNESS, ILLUSION, AND IT IS COMING TO AN END.

WHEN YOU TRY TO REMEMBER, NIRVANA, YOUR MEMORY WILL FADE LIKE TRYING TO DRAW IN THE WATER. THAT IS THE NATURE OF THIS DREAM. BUT YOU ARE DREAMING WHILE BEING INSIDE THE NIRVANA. BUT YOU CANNOT REMEMBER IT. IT IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. THIS WORLD IS BUT A DREAM. AND YOU ARE INSIDE NIRVANA. WHEN YOU REMEMBER THIS THE DREAM WILL CHANGE.

So take it easy. Get used to nirvana. And gradually and Steadily awaken to nirvana. But do wake up. Please. Because the world needs your true nature. Who you TRUELY ARE. YOU. BUDDHA NEEDS YOU TO WAKE UP. AND BECOME WHO BUDDHA HAS CREATED YOU TO BE IN YOUR TRUE HUMAN NATURE. WHO Y O U TRUELY ARE. IN BLISS.