Shunryu Suzuki Roshi

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

That which is unconditioned is obvious. *

But then we'd have to say the obvious is often not seen. That spacious meadow can be quite entertaining and interesting. So those sheep and cows remain unaware they are captive, prisoners. At the mercy of the farmer who owns and controls them.

It's like a friend is swimming in a river and you are quite happy and content laying on the grass on the shore gazing up at the clouds... your friend says, "come in the water and swim with me!" And you say, "nah, I'm happy here." Then your friend says, "well just put your feet in then!" You say, "ok sure." Right away you feel the shock of the cold water and you recoil...you wonder if you want to keep your feet in there. Then you get used to the temperature and it feels nice. Your friend seems to be having so much fun, you wade in up to your waist...."this feels good" you think. You friend shouts, "swim over here there is a cool fish here to see!" So you do. Your friend says, "maybe we should catch it and eat it." You say, "nah I don't like to kill animals for food." Your friend gets mad, "it's a dumb fish.... they are made to be eaten!" "No" you say, "It has a life, what gives us the right to end it's life here in it's home this river?" Then your friend grabs it and hits it on a nearby rock.

My metaphor is the river is the mental conditioned world. The shore looking up at the clouds, the unconditioned state. Once one is in the river, control and freedom is lost. Life and experience in that river is controlled by the river. We have no power over what we may experience there. A lot try to find the unconditioned from the conditioned, to gaze at the clouds from the river, but too much is going on there in the river, stuff we have no mastery or control of. The key is to not put even a toe into the river. Even a toe in there can pull in your entire body.

One can only "try" if one is in the river. Unaware being in the river is a choice. One is either in the river or out. Trying is meaningless. To try is to be in the river imagining what is on the shore.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

My metaphor is the river is the mental conditioned world. The shore looking up at the clouds, the unconditioned state.

Though it doesn’t exactly translate from the old Sami, the township I grew up in by the river was/is called: “Water running in single file”.

*

Buddhist metaphors are different Phaelyn. The unconditioned is the sky, not the clouds that obscure it.

Why is the metaphor for the unconditioned - the sky?

*

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by janielee

Thanks for your heartfelt and lovely contributions, Joe Mc.

Thank you for being yourself.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

But then we'd have to say the obvious is often not seen. That spacious meadow can be quite entertaining and interesting. So those sheep and cows remain unaware they are captive, prisoners. At the mercy of the farmer who owns and controls them.

It's like a friend is swimming in a river and you are quite happy and content laying on the grass on the shore gazing up at the clouds... your friend says, "come in the water and swim with me!" And you say, "nah, I'm happy here." Then your friend says, "well just put your feet in then!" You say, "ok sure." Right away you feel the shock of the cold water and you recoil...you wonder if you want to keep your feet in there. Then you get used to the temperature and it feels nice. Your friend seems to be having so much fun, you wade in up to your waist...."this feels good" you think. You friend shouts, "swim over here there is a cool fish here to see!" So you do. Your friend says, "maybe we should catch it and eat it." You say, "nah I don't like to kill animals for food." Your friend gets mad, "it's a dumb fish.... they are made to be eaten!" "No" you say, "It has a life, what gives us the right to end it's life here in it's home this river?" Then your friend grabs it and hits it on a nearby rock.

My metaphor is the river is the mental conditioned world. The shore looking up at the clouds, the unconditioned state. Once one is in the river, control and freedom is lost. Life and experience in that river is controlled by the river. We have no power over what we may experience there. A lot try to find the unconditioned from the conditioned, to gaze at the clouds from the river, but too much is going on there in the river, stuff we have no mastery or control of. The key is to not put even a toe into the river. Even a toe in there can pull in your entire body.

One can only "try" if one is in the river. Unaware being in the river is a choice. One is either in the river or out. Trying is meaningless. To try is to be in the river imagining what is on the shore.

Maybe a fish will come and eat my friend ! lol...its that idea of looking at an ant when you are a child or an adult perhaps and seeing some kind of relationship to a human of size perhaps or purpose. To know that it's ok to disappear ..for ego to take a hike .. and the triggers for that to happen it could be argued are at their most plentiful in nature. But some will rally against mountains and fight the giant waves of the ocean claiming that it is a very spirited way to lead life ? I'm not wholly convinced but as you allude it could get very interesting and funny ..but also tragic too...war and starvation etc. .. anyways thanks

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