Body, Emotions, Mind … and Beyond

thankyou zofkchop.I will study this post more thoroughly tomorrow when I have more time. It looks to me that you are clarifying all of my beliefs' can only thank you for these posts that are so valuable to me.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

In the end … Soul realizes that *everything* that comes to It via Its entirety does so for Its benefit … for Its growth.
The difficulties will continue unless and until one absorbs the wisdom from each … and fulfills the efforts of further growth.

And Voila!

Yeszorkchop,post #141 is better understood, thank you.

[zorkchop]

Considerations Forty-Five …

Why Do This ?

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Working out of the psychic worlds and into the Pure Worlds of God is extremely difficult and relatively few have done it. ( Given that the number of “entities” in existence is countless … a “relative few” is still a goodly number. )

One discovers that all of this is NOT done for pleasure. Knowing greater Truth is not something that is well-met by the masses. Mind neither wants to find nor believe that “someone” is beyond them or knows more than is widely accepted.

People who claim status and recognition through the mental worlds have great “value” in todays world and always have … becoming part of the recognized authority. This is all preliminary to later steps on the Path. There is no other way to get beyond this than to do it.

What the yogis and the mystics go through is preliminary and basic to later disciplines. Again … a progression. Disciplines held as one advances towards … and later enters … the True Home of Soul is strict, definite, and completely livable. Baby-steps towards all of this is common … through lifetime after lifetime. These preliminary lifetimes before establishing oneself in the higher realms are only the first stages of what must be lived daily in subsequent lifetimes.

So … why?

Personally … there would be many reasons here to any individual. As one revises and purifies their viewpoints … they naturally rise … whether they do this on purpose or not … and as they rise … the “Call of Spirit” becomes greater and more urgent to the individual Soul. It is often undefined by the individual … but it is a pull … a draw … nonetheless.

Another common reason … the individual has just had enough of the mental arena and wants out. The constant mental chattering … the promise of greater truths beyond that never seem to come about … Soul finally wants to get beyond this … and find the actual “Truth” that has been whispered about for eons … and often launches an all-out, desperate effort to reach the Unknown. There are often many lifetimes involved in this phase until the individual has gained enough strength and preliminary discipline to even get to the stage where this begins to work.

Another common reason … the individual beings to understand the composition and purpose of the lower psychic worlds and realizes that working beyond these worlds involves working with LIFE at a greater level. One changes from working for the good of the “parts” of the psychic worlds to the working for the Whole of LIFE … the Universal Cause … universal not meaning that of the physical world but of the Whole … the good of the Whole … for the good of all concerned … anywhere.

Big words … big concepts. As I’ve said before … it takes forever to get there.

Can it be done?

Without a doubt. The goal IS attainable. It is desire, passion, dedication, discipline, devotion, effort, etc … that carries the individual forward … and all of this is aimed at the Whole of LIFE … not for sensational and personal reasons … but for appreciation, acknowledgment, and reverence for the beauty of LIFE and that which sets all of this in motion.

It is not something you do as a status … for in the end … most people are against you for attaining such levels. You are a threat to their mental acceptances. Again … this is normal … and expected … something that one learns … even though it is a rather unhappy discovery.

The greater Truth is not for all … not that it is so secretive … but it is that they do not listen … and are unwilling to put in the time and correct effort to take the steps. They would rather stay in the playground of the psychic worlds. Again … these are normal steps.

As stated before … karma is the Law of Self-Responsibility … and one finally learns of … and begins to live … these responsibilities. Often … it is all as simple as that … but as the old saying goes … It is very simple … but it is NOT easy.

One develops a personal yardstick … an inner measuring device that assists in recognizing those that can offer valuable information from those that promote common practices and beliefs. One also learns when to open ones mouth … and when not to. People work harder to NOT learn than to simply set all of their limitations aside and do the work necessary. Mind is a ruthless taskmaster. Most people are slaves to their own mind. I’m reluctant to say that … but it’s true … and in more than a few issues … I do too. Otherwise … I wouldn’t be on this physical plane. If you are “here” … you can pretty much count on a number of limitations holding you here.

Divulging information to someone who is not ready … is highly frowned upon. One actually loses ground by doing so. After working so hard to attain the heights … one learns to recognize and keep their mouth shut.It is an inherent responsibility of and for those who know. The public mind does NOT like this. Mind believes … that if YoU have information … then YoU should just give it out freely … for the asking.

It doesn’t work that way.

By the time you are ready to take this on as a lifestyle … much of the common issues most get caught up in are laid to rest. By the time you have stepped onto Sat Lok to stay … you most likely have formed or are good at the discipline and viewpoints and practices necessary to stay there. By this time … you have already found an authentic Master … and are ready for the adventure.

Finding a true, authentic Master is relatively easy … following a true authentic Master is not. Many are called … few will answer.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

Tidbit …

Much gathers more … loss leads to greater loss.

What appears without is what has been found within.

Words are cheap … intentions are cheap … DO-ing is the magic.

All loss at any stage on the Path is due to a scattering of consciousness.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

More later.

Thanks zorkchop, I think the only thing I personally don't resonate with is the dependence on a Master.

I have had the privilege of encountering a true Guru, and anyone who has notes the wonders of this, but no Master or Guru I have ever met has said that one must go through a Master. In fact, the practices laid out in the many great traditions - from Buddhism, to Sufism, to Neo-Advaita and even Mystic Christianity - lacks for nothing, if in fact students would apply themselves and seek guidance as necessary. Naturally, if one is fortunate enough to encounter a real Master/Guru, that would be infinitely a boon. Those in this forum who once had real life Gurus/Teachers show for it through their practice - JustASimpleGuy, Still Waters, iamthat, Starman to name a few - the insights are different because they have had guides, as well. If there is a genuine guide, following them is utmost valuable and can help the students

But to create a dependency that only a Master can bring them forward seems foreign to me.

I hesitate because I believe my own teacher brought me to a place I could not find myself, but I'm wondering if this is always the case. When I reflect on the Buddhist traditions, the Mystic traditions, I don't believe this is the case, even as the teachers invariably point...the point is not the dependency on anyone, it's the will and intent to follow through on the practices that are Love. With thanks to all genuine teachers and leaders of the Way.

Thanks, well wishes,
JL

Question zorkchop.
From your below quote taken from post #141, Sat Lok and Atma Lok are foriegn words to me.
So in order to have a better understanding I did a little search.
I found this chart.
Is this below link along the same lines of what you are referring to?
http://vardankar.com/wp-content/uplo...DANKAR-3-1.jpg

If the chart is useful, would Atma Lok be above the 12th plane?

Thank you in advance.

Technically … they are divided into a positive and a negative area. The True Home of Soul …
the infamous 5th Plane … Sat Lok … is the dividing line. Atma Lok is another.
The Pure Good Worlds and the Lower Psychic Worlds still another …
more along the lines of what I’ve been using.

EDIT: Here in this link is almost the same chart with more explanations.
http://vardankar.com/wp-content/uplo...ARDANKAR-8.jpg

Just an attempt to understand foreign language and teachings.
So thanks again.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Question zorkchop.
------ Here in this link is almost the same chart with more explanations.
http://vardankar.com/wp-content/uplo...ARDANKAR-8.jpg

Ah yes, I know that chart.:)

[zorkchop]

Replies & Clarifications 9 …

I’ve hinted many times in these various posts that the path is “ruthless” … and this is one of the crossroads on it.

I cannot tell you what to do. All I can say is … the tests at this level will shake one to the core. Truth … Greater Reality … Existence … whatever you wish to call IT … goes on … whether we believe in IT’s facets and / or Laws or not.

The difference between what we are told are Masters below the mental realms and those authentic Masters above … is as night-and-day. Authentic Masters are NOT easily found. Most people don’t even know They are here.

What would you have me say … that the Buddhists, Sufis, Neo-Advaitas and Mystic Christians are wrong? Or limited?

I’m not going to say that. Those are the discoveries that one will make on the Path. I will say … that I totally stand by what I have said so far. Without change. Without qualification. And they are neither wrong nor limited … they offer their level of information to those that are interested.

Maybe a better question for you … and others facing this step … what stops you from accepting a Master? What it is … within Self … that would stop you? And … if you have never met an authentic Master … how do you know what They would require of you?

What will you have to face within yourself to “surrender” to a Master?

There are levels of Self that must be faced when dealing with this. For many … there is no other way.

I will give you a hint … “dependency” … is a mental construct.

And “surrender” is not what you think.

But there is much more to it than that.

I have thought about putting in a post on Mastership … but since I am not a Master … it would be only what I could tell you about my interactions with them … what I have been told … what has later turned out to be true … etc. I haven’t figured out if I want to do that yet. I all sounds too much like boasting … and I am NOT one to boast. Far from it. In fact … I would rather be totally secretive and not tell anyone anything … but then that doesn’t offer much of a service to LIFE … does it?

Without a doubt … every one of us on this board … have come across “Masters and Gurus and Teachers” that promised to be able to fulfill us to the end … and it didn’t pan out … for whatever reason. It is not always the students fault. Sometimes the teachers cannot take students into places where they themselves have not been. To make claims is easy. To be able to actually do what an authentic Master can do … can only be done by an authentic Master.

I know there are lots of threads on the board about “doing it on my own” … “not needing a Master” … etc. When I first re-discovered these teachings more than 30 years ago … I wrestled with the same question … and I know better ! It took me a year to finally realize what I was doing … and what was nudging me in that direction.

For all teachers that are known in the above religions and many more … there are those that taught them. They are Not all gone because they have left the Earth Plane. They are just that hard to find. You do not find them on websites.

So … if this makes you uncomfortable janielee … dismiss it. If you’re happy where you are … on we go.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

ImthatIm … check PM’s.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

One of the most powerfully destructive mental neuroses mankind has is the concept and desire for a teacher and to be a teacher

Originally Posted by zorkchop

Considerations Forty-Five …

Why Do This ?

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

Working out of the psychic worlds and into the Pure Worlds of God is extremely difficult and relatively few have done it. ( Given that the number of “entities” in existence is countless … a “relative few” is still a goodly number. )

One discovers that all of this is NOT done for pleasure. Knowing greater Truth is not something that is well-met by the masses. Mind neither wants to find nor believe that “someone” is beyond them or knows more than is widely accepted.

People who claim status and recognition through the mental worlds have great “value” in todays world and always have … becoming part of the recognized authority. This is all preliminary to later steps on the Path. There is no other way to get beyond this than to do it.

What the yogis and the mystics go through is preliminary and basic to later disciplines. Again … a progression. Disciplines held as one advances towards … and later enters … the True Home of Soul is strict, definite, and completely livable. Baby-steps towards all of this is common … through lifetime after lifetime. These preliminary lifetimes before establishing oneself in the higher realms are only the first stages of what must be lived daily in subsequent lifetimes.

So … why?

Personally … there would be many reasons here to any individual. As one revises and purifies their viewpoints … they naturally rise … whether they do this on purpose or not … and as they rise … the “Call of Spirit” becomes greater and more urgent to the individual Soul. It is often undefined by the individual … but it is a pull … a draw … nonetheless.

Another common reason … the individual has just had enough of the mental arena and wants out. The constant mental chattering … the promise of greater truths beyond that never seem to come about … Soul finally wants to get beyond this … and find the actual “Truth” that has been whispered about for eons … and often launches an all-out, desperate effort to reach the Unknown. There are often many lifetimes involved in this phase until the individual has gained enough strength and preliminary discipline to even get to the stage where this begins to work.

Another common reason … the individual beings to understand the composition and purpose of the lower psychic worlds and realizes that working beyond these worlds involves working with LIFE at a greater level. One changes from working for the good of the “parts” of the psychic worlds to the working for the Whole of LIFE … the Universal Cause … universal not meaning that of the physical world but of the Whole … the good of the Whole … for the good of all concerned … anywhere.

Big words … big concepts. As I’ve said before … it takes forever to get there.

Can it be done?

Without a doubt. The goal IS attainable. It is desire, passion, dedication, discipline, devotion, effort, etc … that carries the individual forward … and all of this is aimed at the Whole of LIFE … not for sensational and personal reasons … but for appreciation, acknowledgment, and reverence for the beauty of LIFE and that which sets all of this in motion.

It is not something you do as a status … for in the end … most people are against you for attaining such levels. You are a threat to their mental acceptances. Again … this is normal … and expected … something that one learns … even though it is a rather unhappy discovery.

The greater Truth is not for all … not that it is so secretive … but it is that they do not listen … and are unwilling to put in the time and correct effort to take the steps. They would rather stay in the playground of the psychic worlds. Again … these are normal steps.

As stated before … karma is the Law of Self-Responsibility … and one finally learns of … and begins to live … these responsibilities. Often … it is all as simple as that … but as the old saying goes … It is very simple … but it is NOT easy.

One develops a personal yardstick … an inner measuring device that assists in recognizing those that can offer valuable information from those that promote common practices and beliefs. One also learns when to open ones mouth … and when not to. People work harder to NOT learn than to simply set all of their limitations aside and do the work necessary. Mind is a ruthless taskmaster. Most people are slaves to their own mind. I’m reluctant to say that … but it’s true … and in more than a few issues … I do too. Otherwise … I wouldn’t be on this physical plane. If you are “here” … you can pretty much count on a number of limitations holding you here.

Divulging information to someone who is not ready … is highly frowned upon. One actually loses ground by doing so. After working so hard to attain the heights … one learns to recognize and keep their mouth shut.It is an inherent responsibility of and for those who know. The public mind does NOT like this. Mind believes … that if YoU have information … then YoU should just give it out freely … for the asking.

It doesn’t work that way.

By the time you are ready to take this on as a lifestyle … much of the common issues most get caught up in are laid to rest. By the time you have stepped onto Sat Lok to stay … you most likely have formed or are good at the discipline and viewpoints and practices necessary to stay there. By this time … you have already found an authentic Master … and are ready for the adventure.

Finding a true, authentic Master is relatively easy … following a true authentic Master is not. Many are called … few will answer.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

Tidbit …

Much gathers more … loss leads to greater loss.

What appears without is what has been found within.

Words are cheap … intentions are cheap … DO-ing is the magic.

All loss at any stage on the Path is due to a scattering of consciousness.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

More later.

Zokchop,there is a reason why you have been pushed to share this information.Don't put yourself down.