Why I'm not a Taoist

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 180 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by ayar415

I have, so far, listened to 30 minutes of Dr. Greyson's talk, and have been researching his background to get a drift of where he is coming from.
Tibetan Buddhism seems to be the driving force behind Dr. Greyson and his mentor, Dr. Stevenson, in their work which was funded by wealthy industrialist Chester Carlson.
You and I don't believe that consciousness comes from the brain. I have my reasons, and so have you. May I know why this realization is important to you?

Your research on Dr. Greyson's background is quite accurate as you are very thorough in your investigation.

As for your question regarding why it is important for me to understand the connection between consciousness and the brain, I can only say that I have been intensely interested in discovering the true nature of the Reality and that is one very important aspect of it.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 180 EXCERPT:As for your question regarding why it is important for me to understand the connection between consciousness and the brain, I can only say that I have been intensely interested in discovering the true nature of the Reality and that is one very important aspect of it.

Dr. Greyson's work is not mainstream scientific research in psi phenomena. His mentor, Dr. Stevenson, had received peer criticisms. His research practices were found questionable and inconsistent with the way experiments are conducted in consciousness studies within psychology. Another notable personality is Dr. Alan Wallace. He is a Tibetan Buddhist priest ordained by the Dalai Lama. His Center for Contemplative Research in Santa Barbara is also into consciousness studies using the scientific method

There is currently no consensus in the scientific community comprising skeptics and proponents who argue that their observations prove beyond a reasonable doubt that human consciousness can interact with its environment beyond the usual boundaries of space and time. What does this mean? Can Dr. Greyson tell us? What are the practical implications of something so fundamentally profound?

I asked you why the realization - that consciousness has nothing to do with the brain - is important to you. Do you have a vested interest in reincarnation?

I define consciousness as the awareness of sensory perception. If you also believe that this awareness does not arise from the brain, how do you explain the sense of sight? You said that you could see your brother and sister outside the room in which your body lay unconscious. Can you explain how that could have happened? Is it the extra-sensory perception that has nothing to do with the ordinary sense of sight? Is that what you mean by "outside the realm of the 5 senses"? If that is what you were talking about, then I am not on the same page as you and Molearner.

My consciousness is the realm of the 5 senses but it does not arise from the brain. Big difference, and a lot weirder.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 182 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by ayar415

I asked you why the realization - that consciousness has nothing to do with the brain - is important to you. Do you have a vested interest in reincarnation?

I just used Dr. Greyson's lecture as an example of some one in the medical/psychiatric profession who supports a conclusion that I had reached long before I heard his lecture ... namely that the brain does not create consciousness. I am fully aware that many will not be convinced by Dr. Greyson's lecture but it does provide food for thought for some people. As the Nobel-Prize winning quantum physicist Schroedinger once stated, it seems impossible to probe the depths of Reality with scientific instruments and/or intellectual logic. The skeptics of whom you speak seem doomed with their reliance on intellect and "scientific methodology". Being a Phi Beta Kappa intellectual, it took some powerful experiences and interventions to shake me free of limited intellectualism and the so-called "scientific method" though there is indeed a "science" of sorts that can lead one to realizations.

As for your next question, I do NOT have a "vested interest in reincarnation" and yet there is some substance to "reincarnation" and "rebirth" beliefs. However, as Ramana Maharshi stated (and with which I agree), "the reincarnating ego is of the LOWER PLANES".

In any case, you still have not addressed my verifiable experience during my NDE where I could clearly see my brother and sister down the hallway beyond the realm of the 5 senses and could accurately describe what they were wearing even though they never entered the room where my body was.

Let's try to focus on that and avoid distracting albeit interesting diversions.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 182 EXCERPT:
In any case, you still have not addressed my verifiable experience during my NDE where I could clearly see my brother and sister down the hallway beyond the realm of the 5 senses and could accurately describe what they were wearing even though they never entered the room where my body was.

Let's try to focus on that and avoid distracting albeit interesting diversions.

There are a lot of verifiable experiences, including yours, that I have not addressed.

Since 1858, there have been 69 verified miracles or cures in Lourdes. "Those are the ones that we have absolutely certain medical evidence and we can stand over," Dr Moran said. (Wikipedia)

The reason why I have not addressed the experiences at Lourdes is because they are not important to me. And if you are not interested in reincarnation, why is your NDE experience important to you and need addressing?

What we need to focus on is your realization (gnosis) that the consciousness does not come from the physical brain. So, please explain the following:

1. Your ability to see your brother and sister down the hallway outside the room where your unconscious body lay.

2. Your ability to see this post that you are reading now on your computer screen.

3. How does your consciousness (that does not come from the brain) operate in situations 1 and 2 above?

[Ewwerrin]

The Consciousness is Energetic. And what it experiences is based on its energetic thought patterns / perspective / believe.

To know the energy, is to perceive the very perception in the way that Source Energy perceives our perception. Without aligning the perception or consciousness energy, with Source Energy, there is no clear perception. Even tho it may seem clear, and real, it will be a very real not so clear percpetion. Where there is a lack of knowing or anything that is truely desired or wanted and intended, as those intentions and purpose are always held by source energy for us.

How does one align their perspective / perception with Source Energy? I cannot say, maybe meditation for many people can help. But all I can say is that when the perception is aligned, the energy and frequency is aligned with source perspective, the result of that alignment is allot of pure positive bliss good feeling emotions. And the clarity and knowingness and all those good things follow next.

And Dao is like this eternal and infinite ever expanding Source of pure positive energy / consciousness. What people call god source. As the name is obviously not important. But the important thing is to know that all things are relative to that. It is the prime relativity. To which all things are relative towards.

So clarity of perception and knowing, are also relative to that. It is always being and becoming evermore here and now, all that you want to be do or have, energetically at the source of your being, of which you are an eternally evermore being and becoming inseperable extension of it. And you will always have some sense of relativity towards that. Towards your moreness or lessness of allowed alignment or resisted discordance with that.

It's all energy motional from the Source Perspective. And it's infinite and eternally evermore being and becoming evermore here and now.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 185 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

And Dao is like this eternal and infinite ever expanding Source of pure positive energy / consciousness. What people call god source.

That is precisely the point that I have unsuccessfully tried to make in my interactions with ayar415. One taps into "this eternal and infinite ever expanding Source" and that allows one to be aware of that which lies beyond the realm of the 5 senses.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 185 EXCERPT:That is precisely the point that I have unsuccessfully tried to make in my interactions with ayar415. One taps into "this eternal and infinite ever expanding Source" and that allows one to be aware of that which lies beyond the realm of the 5 senses.

We mustn't try to confer gnosis (enlightenment) on another. Togetherness is collegial, a shared responsibility in respectful communion. Your idea doesn't have to be mine, nor mine yours; no motive to convert or coerce.

A spiritual dialogue, like any intelligent search for truth, is rewarding in itself; but unlike any other, has no goal and, therefore, no ending.

(Good lord, I am beginning to sound like a Taoist master, or - worst still - Krishnamurti.)

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 187 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by ayar415

A spiritual dialogue, like any intelligent search for truth, is rewarding in itself; but unlike any other, has no goal and, therefore, no ending.

I have done my best in trying to continue the spiritual dialogue about realizations beyond the 5 senses ... and even beyond intellect and words.

[django]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 185 EXCERPT:
One taps into "this eternal and infinite ever expanding Source" and that allows one to be aware of that which lies beyond the realm of the 5 senses.

FWIW This doesn’t resonate with me much, I’m more interested in developing the subtle channels than trying to tap into the Source. More along the lines of ‘build the subtle energy body and the source will come’.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by django

FWIW This doesn’t resonate with me much, I’m more interested in developing the subtle channels than trying to tap into the Source. More along the lines of ‘build the subtle energy body and the source will come’.

Brilliant, thanks for sharing, because that is how you connect with Source.