Meditation, some answers

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ Gem ... interesting. I’d say that equanimity is a result, cessation from craving is a result ... of a shift and not the practice itself. We get to, by being. Flower blooms (becomes), fragrance happens (results).

Ramana’s neti neti is an inquiry, pointing out the truth. However, that recognition, is a result of wisdom imbibed by embracing & releasing, shifting from grasping to connecting, from stagnating to flowing.

All sensory electricities are essentially touch. Without the touch, we are insentient. Thereby, aspect of mindfulness is simply softening attention, in an unbroken continuum of aliveness, in a mode of vibrancy, receptive to surprise, moment to moment.

We may be saying the same thing, perhaps ... the shift automatically encompasses the attribute (non-attribute) of not desiring, not fearing, not clinging and so on ... even no limited identity/entity, since boundaries blur, as consciousness expands.

Whilst in the body ... and we are here, now, in the body ... the inbuilt filter of conscience in our heart automatically presents to presence impulses of higher and lower mind. Nothing is deselected. It is recognised. So, if we want that cappuccino, we do so, knowing it as an urge of mind body ... as we go along, sharing the flavour savoured with God, who has made it possible. So, surrender, humility, gratitude ... as the results of celebration.

Likewise for meditation, it becomes an orientation, not a doing.

I don’t know if I could express my view adequately.

[FallingLeaves]

he wonders what all this commotion about finding the 'perfect attitude' is all about, yet again.

Originally Posted by Gem

We train balance of mind, equanimity, cease all craving/volitional activity/reactivity, so if there are remarkable sorts of experience, the risk is enthrallment and the desire for more, and also, disappointment when it passes, wanting it back again, wanting more, and frustration with the unpleasant, mundane and/or uncomfortable..

Yes. This is why I've said many times in this forum to treat any experience while practicing just like any other distraction. Don't chase it nor push it away but instead just let it go and return to technique, even if there's no technique as in Do Nothing (Shikantaza).

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

@ Gem ... interesting. I’d say that equanimity is a result, cessation from craving is a result ... of a shift and not the practice itself. We get to, by being. Flower blooms (becomes), fragrance happens (results).

I differ as equanimity is the practice and everything else is consequential.

Ramana’s neti neti is an inquiry, pointing out the truth. However, that recognition, is a result of wisdom imbibed by embracing & releasing, shifting from grasping to connecting, from stagnating to flowing.

Ramana taught self inquiry which is described as always returning attention toward the source of self.

All sensory electricities are essentially touch. Without the touch, we are insentient. Thereby, aspect of mindfulness is simply softening attention, in an unbroken continuum of aliveness, in a mode of vibrancy, receptive to surprise, moment to moment. I think that's pretty much the same as Legrand's approach.

I though Legrand's approach sounded more like self inquiry similar to Ramana's. I also think meditation on touch (feeling sensations) is very good.

I don’t know if I could express my view adequately.

Just edit to save space - but I have no notions of God, so I don;t understand any of that, and I think it's more like you are present, consciously aware of the experience 'as it is' in the way it is experienced by you. I usually find that people are disatified with that, so they start doing something hoping to make it more special, and thus fail to notice the actuality of their disatisfaction. Sometimes I think these fancier meditation techniques distract people from the truth of themselves as they currently are, but what if this coveted enlightenment is you just as you are now and we overlook that because we think it's somewhere else at some other time?

Originally Posted by Legrand

Hello Zinnat,

A lot of emphasis seems to be put on the importance of having an object to focus on breath/mantra/a visual point/a primordial sound.

What about simply focusing on Who is focusing, the Subject, until no more distinction can be made between the object and the subject?

Legrand,

It looks to me that you have not paid enough attention to what i am saying from the starting.

Actually, the whole point of the meditation is focusing on who is focusing, nothing else whatsoever.

But, can you tell who is it exactly that is focusing and how to focus on it?

Let me go again to what i said in the starting of the thread. Besides body, there are two entities in humans- mind and consciousness, which exist in a very much amalgamated form and cannot be separated. The purpose of the meditation is to focus on the consciousness and make it move upwards but as it is a non doing entity so there is no way to approach it directly. The only possible way to approach is by mind and as consciousness gets attracted to the most prominent emotion of the mind at any given time so we have to use this character to move consciousness.

So, when we focus that much on any particular thing that it becomes the most prominent thought at that time, mind automatically drags consciousness with it and spiritual journey starts.

Now, you may ask how can one believe that consciousness moves with most prominent mind thought? We all experience this many times in our lives but do not pay attention to it.

Imagine, you are going alone somewhere in the dark. You are already frightened and all of a sudden some one comes in front of you from the dark. At that movement you will feel a chilling sensation in you spine and like something moved inside your body. This is the movement of the consciousness though it will last only for 1-2 seconds. The same we feel in the meditation when it becomes strong enough to move the consciousness.

Hope that answers your query.

with love,
sanjay

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ Gem ... I don’t know what enlightenment is. What I do cognise however, is separateness gradually shifting to interconnectedness to oneness, albeit, with slowly reducing oscillations.

Wisdom downloads, manifestations, the void, deepening void, the reverberation Ohm ... I neither negate, nor seek, as it presents itself. Certain enablements are assimilated in permanence, others graze the aura fleetingly. With no pride in what is, accepted as a shift and no analysis of horizons shown but yet not reached. For want of a suitable expression ‘is-ness of being-ness’

I also said in the starting of the thread that all memories are stored in the consciousness, not in the mind so one may ask how i came to know this.

Actually it is quite easy to understand.

Let us do a thought experiment to understand this. Say, a driver is driving in his car very fast at any highway. He is enjoying driving and also hearing a song on his music system. That song is new to him and he is hearing it for the first time thus he is not ware of its lyrics. Then, all of a sudden, a boy comes in front of his car from nowhere. Seeing this, the driver applies full brakes, the car skids, miss the boy and stops after skidding some distance. let us say all this takes 15-20 seconds.

Now, think of the situation again. That new song is still playing on the system but now if you ask the driver, he will not able to recall of the lyrics of those 20 seconds. Why? Technically speaking, the song never stopped playing. It means that his ears and mind were never stopped listening that song. Then why he is would not be able to remember that 20 second part?

This happens because of extraordinary circumstances, his consciousness was drown to saving the boy thus it skipped the storage of the memory of those 20 seconds.

Or, can there be any other explanation?

with love,
sanjay

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

@ Gem ... I don’t know what enlightenment is. What I do cognise however, is separateness gradually shifting to interconnectedness to oneness, albeit, with slowly reducing oscillations.

Wisdom downloads, manifestations, the void, deepening void, the reverberation Ohm ... I neither negate, nor seek, as it presents itself. Certain enablements are assimilated in permanence, others graze the aura fleetingly. With no pride in what is, accepted as a shift and no analysis of horizons shown but yet not reached. For want of a suitable expression ‘is-ness of being-ness’

I guess no one knows what enlightenment is. It is probably stories that people have made up and now everyone is trying to get it, but typically it serves as an imaginary 'what I will become in the future'. If you look at it logically, Where is life existing? If that's interesting you stop and notice so you can be aware of what's 'already happening'. It's not really a choice though. You are interested in what you are interested in, and most are interested in more better experience, and the attention will turn to that, generate volition and 'make it happen (or not happen)'. I think one day it just dawns on people that there is nothing they can do. It just happens to be the way it is and you can't make that any other way, and you just stop, drop it, and breathe a sigh of relief. Really, you have to stop in order to notice. Any one can try it. Just pay attention so you become more aware of what this experience is like right now, just for 10 seconds is fine. Notice how you 'stopped doing and started noticing'? If that was noticed, people will thereafter start to notice how rarely they are present AKA how they are constantly distracted... so practice starts. You notice when you have drifted into distraction, and return. Repeat. If people tried it and noticed themselves stop, nothing spectacular happened, but something subtle occurred which is usually overlooked.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Why focus on anything?

Just..... let it be.

Yes that is the pinnacle!

Let It Be by the Beatles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDYfEBY9NM4

[proakash]

thanks for the information about meditation I've clear my all doubt about meditation.