Ego is not the same as the sense of individuality

Originally Posted by Aupmanyav

Yes, there was a doer, but doer was 'anicca' (impermanent) and had no 'atta' (substanciality, closest equivalent). The doer did the karma and if present, then they can affect the doer. If the doer is not there, then they can affect someone who may not have been involved at all.

Is it like, if it is considered that action is there (Vyavaharika), then there is a doer and effects, and if there is no consideration of presence of action (Paramarthika), then no doer and effects?

So, is it,"the consideration of presence of action", itself creates a bondage? When mind is peaceful without thoughts, will there be an action be considered as present?

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by hazada guess

I'd be glad to say goodbye to my ego, but the sense if I in my opinion (own awareness) will remain.

To be a living being ("I am“) is not the ultimate state; there is something beyond, much more wonderful, which is neither being nor not-being, neither living nor not living. It is a state of awareness, beyond the limitations of space and time. The same source of the will (desire) to live, a source deeper even than life itself. The 'I' is there even without the 'am'. -- Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by alanantic

To be a...
... Maharaj

Doesn't that awarenesz/I have a self and other?
awareness=I
other=wonderfulness.

But even if it is a wonderfulness of oneness and infinity (as I have experienced the highest infinite bliss to be). Then how come that oneness cannot reach us? Doesn't that make seperation and duality absolute?

As to all that highest infinite oneness and bliss, I do not even exist. It is eternally incapable and too high to even realise my poor illusionary invalid existence of limitation and suffering.

I experienced being there, and yet, here I am. Unable to bridge the gap between me and My Higher Self. I cannot find the link. Of why higher and lower. This and that.

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Doesn't that awareness/I have a self and other?

I experienced being there, and yet, here I am. Unable to bridge the gap between me and My Higher Self. I cannot find the link. Of why higher and lower. This and that.

Every "thing" casts a shadow, but light doesn't. The dream analogy may fit better. As a character in a dream world thinks it's all real until something within that dream environment isn't quite right (lucid dreaming), maybe we have to search our own environment for clues that the Universe/Mind is missing something. (The Dreamer, for one thing)

"Do not pay undue attention to the passing scenes of life. You are the immortal self (consciousness) living only temporarily in a dream that is sometimes (imagined) to be a nightmare. That is the higher philosophy (and truth) of the mystics." -- Yogananda

"The soul is undergoing a dream from which it must awake. This dream represents our association and identification with the world. The fact that it is described as being a dream means that whatever is in it has to be false. Nothing in a dream can be true. Waking up from that dream is the ultimate goal, Self-realization." -- The main theme of "Yoga Vasistha"

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by saurab

Many enlightened masters especially from India have stated that with enlightenment the sense of individuality disappears. But that is not true because they mistakenly take the ego to be the sense of individuality (a mistake that is extremely easy to make).

I could not read the article because on my computer the text was black and the background a dark color. But on the subject I think there's a funny thing. If I was a guru and I said to my group, "I have gotten rid of my self," my group might imagine all kinds of things. Like "Oh he has no self! He is enlightened!" or "He is no longer an individual and one with everyone!"

It's funny because the guru statement makes no sense at all. "I have gotten rid of my self."' Who got rid of the self? Well the self obviously!

If something is truly me, there would be no way I could get rid of it. If I can get rid of something, it means that thing was never me.

But persons are a very habitual and conditioned thing. Like my partner has the same coffee drink every morning. I rarely drink coffee and don't eat breakfast. We have different habits and tastes. Different past experiences and views. Our conditioning and habits and tastes can be changed, got rid of. We tend to look at the person we have developed as "the self."

I believe in reincarnation. So to me, this "self" or conditioned person, this aging body and so on, is not me. I could be a Native American Woman this life and a Italian Man the next. Our experiences and conditioning would be very different one life to the next so most of the things we think of as "our self" is not really our self at all.

I think when somebody uses the phrase, "I got rid of my ego or self" the meaning is simply they (the only true self there is) have learned to not identify with their temporary conditioning and habits and so on. The soul or "me" is a self. Is an individual point of perception.

It reminds me of the funny part again. Who or what gets rid of the self? No self is gotten rid of. But the me or self is made clear, has clarity, is no longer identified with their past and habits and conditioning and temporary identity, role, and body.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by alanantic

Every "...
... main theme of "Yoga Vasistha"

Thank you for sharing your wonderful perspective on this. I would definitely want to wake up to a higher reality.

Sometimes I worry that the dream is infinite. That the immortal spirit is just as real and unreal as this world. That every greater reality has one greater than it again in infinite levels.

But I have definitely approached the borderline of this reality and it did reveal that this reality is a dream. Absolute joy. But then I lost that place and state of being where everything is clearly known and full resonance and clear knowing of eternal spirit. After I lost connection with that, appearantly, I was in absolute despair for years and still today I cannot seem to return to that level of realisation where this is a dream. And having lost connection with that absolute unconditional joy, has made lose trust in it and lose my faith.

Sometimes I get glimpses but I cannot control it. And it feels like this dream comes out of nothing and there is nothing there after awakening. Just more illusions and fakeness and infinite and eternal inescapable appearances forever real and unreal.

This longing to go back home to spirit. Or atleast resonate with it again. It has consumed my whole life. made me sad that no matter what I try, I cannot return to that place of awakening. Not permanently, only glimpses. Feeling trapped in endless cycles of returning back to this reality of seperation. And in extreme meditation, in the oneness of spirit I find only loneliness left. Loneliness of all oneness. A powerful despair that awakens me back to this dimension of seperation and limitation and appearing realness. But never truely real or true.

I wish I could find that real truth again. An everlasting resonance with it. Not a temporary one. I don't want the joy of absolute realisation to last only a while. This made me destructively agonisingly sad. I hope I can find a way to connect to joyful reunion with eternal spirit more eternally. But I fear that that is eternally impossible as I seem to have already experienced powerful experience of seperation. Yet it has to be connected to the existence of connection. Otherwise it woulden't hurt so much. The longing to return home to the fully joyfully awakened state. But I have already experienced something other than that. I wish I hadn't. It feels like my eternal innocence has been violated by the experience of losing connection with that union with God Spirit/Consciousness. And the eternal inability to connect permantly has me fearing that I will forever go back and forth in an eternal cycle of union and seperation/parting. Joy and suffering. Never endingly. I wish I could destroy this fear once and for all. Or have my spirit come pick me up back home to full awakening and never leave me here to dream. Even tho I know this has to be fake. I cannot seem to wake up for more than a decade. It is very sadning.

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Sometimes I worry that the dream is infinite. That the immortal spirit is just as real and unreal as this world.

Sometimes I get glimpses but I cannot control it. And it feels like this dream comes out of nothing and there is nothing there after awakening.

I find only loneliness left. Loneliness of all oneness. A powerful despair that awakens me back to this dimension of seperation and limitation and appearing realness. But never truely real or true.

It feels like my eternal innocence has been violated by the experience of losing connection with that union with God Spirit/Consciousness.

You have no idea how close you are to my own experience! I've had 2 instances of being lucid in life's Dream; once at 4 years old and then again in my early 30s, about 40 years ago. And they were instances, lasting a few minutes. Yet, the experiences were so profound, I too, have spent a lifetime in search of that profound Truth. Many here on this forum routinely get to that state. It's a Start; a Glimpse. A Buddhist monk once said, "When you get to the point in life where you aren't sure if you're dreaming or not, you're close. I've become very alone; no regular friends, my siblings pretty much shun me, and often I feel abandoned by God and the whole cosmos. Often the pain is excruciating. I have to remind myself that it's a weaning process. Whatever I thought I needed from those relationships I have to find within myself. That's the scary part. I'm an ex-Marine. And Life's become the worst boot camp ever! Drill instructor, "Pushups! Until I get tired! You may be dumb but boy are you gonna be strong!"

"Cry in th dojo, laugh on the battlefield" - Japanese proverb

[Mora321]

In my observation the ego (intelligence operating the personality) is an external installation (as recounted by Don Juan).

The external installation drives the human to get its act together to protect the ego's greatest asset - its self-esteem.

This forces progressive integration of the human persona (mask) eventually paving the way for enlightenment.

Eventually the human learns to control the mental subplane on which the ego exists and at that point the Light becomes dominant and the ego ceases to be defensive and becomes creative.

And the human learns to control the higher mental subplanes, resolves personal karma, commits to the greater good, discards sufficient lower subplane material and hence qualifies for first stage enlightenment.

Of course I could be wrong

[Starman]

Ego is nothing more then a reference point, it is a place where energies meet to form a unique type of consciousness. There are psychological and philosophical schools of thought that do not believe in the concept of “ego.” Although ego psychology has dominated western societal thinking.

Every religion and spiritual practice views ego in its own way. My own personal experience says that in cosmic consciousness there is no such thing as “ego.” There is no “I,” no identity whatsoever. We say “ego” to refer to our own self awareness, but that self awareness changes with spiritual development.

[Ewwerrin]

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