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  #21  
Old 11-06-2012, 07:49 AM
God-Like God-Like is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Student4Life1975

my point is being spiritual in and of itself may (or may not) contribute to our abilities to combat disease, viruses, and other negative things out there that are constantly bombarding us, but its not the only factor. there are specific, deadly physical substances in the world that have a real effect on us whether we acknowledge them or not.

Hi Student4Life .

I have more of an understanding nowadays that everything happens for a reason and we cannot prize a part the reasons from the individual that is in experience of whatever the reasons will entail / contain .

One cannot end there physical existence through illness for example if there isn’t a direct link with the individual in respect of cause and effect it’s just that one may not be conscious of the causes . It matters not if things appear to be accidental or spontaneous where things unfold and manifest that are actually beneficial or detrimental to us in there nature .

My nan who passed over 20 years ago now came through once from spirit via a channel and spoke of her lung cancer that ended her physical life and her understandings attained through being in spirit of to how it manifested into being . To cut a long story short she understood that it had everything to do with her and nothing else .

Where there is illness there is sufferings, where there is sufferings there is disharmony .

Why is there disharmony _ one will have to know themselves inside out to know why .

x daz x
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  #22  
Old 11-06-2012, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
I can agree in the generic sense but the specific examples you briefly allude to do not apply directly to my own experiences.


7L

Whilst there is individual self and individual will what applies to me will not you . It’s all about me and it’s all about you . Beyond individual will what therefore applies will be the same .

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries

In particular, being under the sway of emotions is something I don’t understand, unless you mean that we don’t want to suffer unduly under chronic conditions such as depression or anxiety, or grief- or trauma-related stresses. Is that what you mean?


7L

One can lead with the intellect or the emotions and within that field of energy one can be in expression of such . If one is out of touch with their emotional body then one may lead with one’s head so to speak and apply a rational explanation for why they feel or not feel in a particular way . This understanding and relationship one applies to self will be their expression and this why I speak of being under the sway of the emotions or the intellectual aspects of mind .

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
For one who is centered and has always found a balance between heart and soul, and ever better over time as I’ve come to trust open and strengthen the heart, I’ve found the deep inclinations, preferences, knowings, and yes, emotions of the soul to be key to knowing self, to knowing purpose, to centreing and balance, and to living in alignment with your soul. Which I think is or is the primary aspect of the harmony under discussion here.


7L



Every expression made is key for self understandings to be for when one is left dissatisfied leading through emotional or mental outlets one will find themselves longing for something that is not of them . There will be a limited time of satisfaction in these mind fields of expression but they will be temporary and will be substitutes for how one can be when one is not of them . When the sugar rush is no more one will crave for another fix . This fix cannot be found in the mind body energy .

x daz x
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  #23  
Old 11-06-2012, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri77
Well the story I heard was a child born with AIDS or HIV and within 2 yrs was totally

clear of it..with no trace of it in his cells. Further testing of him indicated his cells refused to be infected

with varied diseases.
Apparently others were found to have similar DNA since then.

There are a few people known to be immune to it, the virus has 2 prongs, but they have a sort of genetic... difference? That their cells have this protein thingamajig that only has one socket, so the virus can't use the other prong, thus being unable to infect the cell. LOL I am so bad at this I forgot all the terms.

I still believe that the mind can help us be a bit healthier, though I guess it can only do so much if we don't take care of ourselves. Perhaps if we manage to imbed in our subconscious that we are healthy, then it will somehow bring that into the conscious, and it will make us work into being healthy?

Cause sometimes some people say "I get ill too easily" and brings this thought into the subconscious, so I think it tells our conscious the same thing, and makes it manifest into our reality, so that person will, indeed, get ill.

I think in that case, affirmations might work.
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  #24  
Old 11-06-2012, 04:36 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Originally Posted by God-Like
Whilst there is individual self and individual will what applies to me will not you . Itís all about me and itís all about you . Beyond individual will what therefore applies will be the same .

Yes!! and no!!! ...(meaning, clarity required here to explain why yes is also no and no is slso yes)...LOL.

Yes...we co-create our external realities. In some sense it is the same at least in this basic regard even whilst individual experience or perception may differ.
----------------------
SELF IS ME, YOU/OTHERS, and ALL
EVERYTHING INTER-"IS"

And yet here is the part that mystics always try to explain. But there is real truth to it. Just as we individually interpenetrate our external reality (the emanation of Oneness), and the reality of others (the Other meaning various others, as well as the collective)...

..so too external reality interpenetrates us...specifically, not just the physical aspects but the metaphysical.

...and just as the rose and the compost garbage "inter-are" (thank you Thicht Nhat Hahn)...or, experience "interbeing" with one another, so too do we with one another. TNH has many beautiful essays that explain this truth of existence so clearly, and with such compassion and love.

This is where the different connections we have with one another on various levels (physical, emotional, mental, spiritual) and with various degrees of intimacy or separation come into play. But interbeing is a fact of our existence, on all of these levels.
--------------
HOW DOES FOCUS ON SELF AS ME PRIMARILY OR ME FIRST SKEW OUR PERCEPTION & GROWTH?
OUR RESPONSIBILITIES TO SELF INCLUDE ME, YOU/OTHERS, & ALL

So, since "all about me" is not just all about me but also is all about Spirit (One) and is also all about you and everyone else...to what degree are we skewing our understanding and our perspective if we put ourselves forward ahead of One and Other? It's a fine line and one I believe we need to constantly re-examine.

That is, whilst focusing on taking responsibility for ourselves in our individuated consciousness, body, and existence, then to what degree do we understand that we are equally responsible for everything and everyone else in existence, but in a different way? Or, with a different sort of focus?

I am responsible not for controlling or judging you, or telling you what you should do or say or know or be...but for accepting you, loving you, and setting my own boundaries for interaction with you that are loving and respectful to both...or, more broadly, to all. In my book, my interbeing with others is inseparable from my interbeing with self and with the Source.

If concrete interaction cannot be done because both parties cannot rise to respectful interaction that honours the needs of all (happens frequently on planet Earth), then there is either compromise or withdrawal.

Yet there is still a need for love and respect, and not just love and respect from me toward me, but also from me toward others and Spirit. Likewise, I must be open to the love and respect of self, of others (as it exists, LOL) and of Spirit (we're good there), or I have also missed a fundamental aspect of existence.

So, once again, it's not all about me, or even me and Spirit "within", unless I provide the clarity & explanation that my focus on my being and on my self includes my focus and awareness of my connection to others and to Spirit.

One can lead with the intellect or the emotions and within that field of energy one can be in expression of such . If one is out of touch with their emotional body then one may lead with oneís head so to speak and apply a rational explanation for why they feel or not feel in a particular way . This understanding and relationship one applies to self will be their expression and this why I speak of being under the sway of the emotions or the intellectual aspects of mind .

It makes sense if you mention either/or
However, again, we need a better vocabulary, don't we?
A passing mood is referred to as emotion.
Chronic grief from trauma is also emotion but is longer-lasting and is valid, i.e. real and needs expression and healing.
And when our soul speaks to us through the soul's deepest desire and knowing, that too can be or contain emotion.

EMBRACE THE SOUL EMOTIONS
LET THE SOUL SPEAK TO US

The inclinations and desires of the soul which are deep-rooted, not fleeting, and are revealed, understood and honed only with the work of living and loving and growing, are also emotions as well as awareness and thought, but they are the deepest and most real or relevant to our knowledge of self and of purpose and to finding the harmony you speak of, IMO.

-Being under the sway of mood swings...obviously not a thing most desire and this is where many daily practices & techniques are helpful.

-Being under the sway of grief or other chronic suffering...necessary for healing, but painful. For many, real trauma leads to introspection for the first time. Thus chronic emotional suffering can be debilitating but to the degree that the soul is allowed to speak and be heard (metaphorically), it may also lead to revelations and a deeper awareness of the soul.

-Being under the sway of soul emotion, just like any other aspect of soul awareness, brings both revelation and joy, harmony & intensity, clarity and purpose. No matter how initially painful or how joyful, it seems both will often be present to some degree over the course of our existence. But I think few would argue that this place of soul knowing and feeling and being is where awareness of self and relationship to existence begins and recurs and deepens.

So emotion as an aspect of our deepest levels of self-awareness...good.
The clearer and stronger the channel from heart to brain, the better.
And the clearer and weaker the channel from brain to heart, the better.
This allows the intellectual mind (brain-mind, as the Native Americans call it) to better and more clearly translate and facilitate the deeper communication, understandings, and expressions of our heart-mind, through which soul and Spirit communicate to us in our individuated existence....without brain-mind overriding or suppressing the soul's expression. It allows us to lead with the fourth and come into a perception and a way of being that many today feel we need to rediscover and reclaim on our journeys.

HEALING THE HEART

Intellectual understanding of our soul's expression is also very helpful, but it is 2nd-tier and equally subject to social context, and the usual blocks, biases and other fear-based emotional paradigms and mindsets ("snake-brain" mindset, other individual biases based on life experience &/or culture, etc).

Processing emotion first in the midbrain rather than in the heart is a trauma-based survival response to severe emotional deprivation, and there is much literature on avoidant emotional response and personality types. The brain reroutes normal emotional processing and translation and response to a place where normal feeling can be controlled, shut down, and handled rationally. Akin to taking quantum experiences and remaking them into 2-D experiences. It is treatable, and there are behavioral methods involving touch and guided self-awareness and redirection.

But first we must love and accept ourselves enough to seek and support this healing and allow normal emotional processing and response back into our lives. Literally, we must love ourselves enough to consciously allow our hearts to heal and to open and to love and feel and express normally. This is exactly the point at which many experience a dark night of the soul...but the dawn will come, if only we can endure the night.

Generally, I also think one of the deepest fears that we do or will all face is coming to know who we are at the soul level, and learning to love, understand, and make peace with who we really are.

PS what happened to the font?


Every expression made is key for self understandings to be for when one is left dissatisfied leading through emotional or mental outlets one will find themselves longing for something that is not of them . There will be a limited time of satisfaction in these mind fields of expression but they will be temporary and will be substitutes for how one can be when one is not of them . When the sugar rush is no more one will crave for another fix . This fix cannot be found in the mind body energy .

Hm, what are you speaking of here? Are you speaking of your own experiences in times past? Or just general observation?

GET REAL & BE THE CHANGE

Yes I agree passing moods or fancies or intellectual pursuits and such in and of themselves do not address the deeper need for awareness and connection, wherever we may find ourselves at the moment. We also facilitate burnout versus deep connection when we approach Self &/or other selves with superficial focus or connections on all levels (the rush or the fix), versus engaging with others from a deeper and more connected place on all levels. We give and get what we have inside, and we must be the change. On the ground, in the heart, the mind, and the soul. Nothing ventured, well then, absolutely, nothing gained. Harmony and connection start with you.

I agree that we need to be in alignment with the soul and then seek to bring our physical/mental/emotional/spiritual existence into alignment with who we are at the deepest levels. Again, IMO and in my experience, this alignment is holistic, just as our existence is holistic. So if we are living lives of integrity and awareness, of honesty and depth, of truth and fortitude expressed as a commitment to being present on all levels to ourselves, to Spirit and to others, then we experience harmony in the matrix despite momentary or passing fluctuation.


x daz x

peace & blessings,
7L
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Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #25  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:33 AM
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Something that was sent to me that had aspects of harmony mentioned .



Why Can't We All Get Along?


"In the linear, energy ebbs and flows between all participants. When the energy is a good match, the consistency of the exchange creates harmony. As one might suspect, disconnecting energy often indicates a poor match.

Relationships with others while physical are an important part of soul's development. Some are obviously more dear to you than others. Those less important, often allow you to walk away from a relationship that just doesn't work.

How then does one decide what to do when the relationship is very important to the structure of your reality?

First, it is important to understand that a poor energy match has probability of improvement. It may never be a perfectly harmonious one, but there can be a reconstruction if both parties are interested. The emphasis being placed on "both parties".


Working to achieve balance in an unbalanced energy requires great focus from all. A decision to be honest, with clarity of intentions, is important. There may be sticking points that will never resolve, but the two parties may be be able to come to energetic agreement. Enough to maintain the relationship in a positive fashion is the desire here.

Secondly, learn to participate. Be active within.the relationship. Waiting for others to come toward you in a conciliatory manner may keep you waiting a long time. Decide to set your ego aside and reach out to an energy who may not be as clear as you are in the moment. In the end, it doesn't matter who wins the argument. There are no winners when the relationship is abandoned.


Third: Try thinking with your heart. Again, both parties need to be on th same page here. Often a singular attempt may be met with negativity if both parties are not engaged.


We realize we will be asked why we have not addressed the world with all its people. Certainly there is a remedy to cure the world of its troubles.

Yes, there is a remedy.

It is you.

If all begin with themselves, the energy will spread to others. A peaceful virus that the world needs begins with you ...
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  #26  
Old 13-06-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
peace & blessings,
7L

(daz) Whilst there is individual self and individual will what applies to me will not you . It’s all about me and it’s all about you . Beyond individual will what therefore applies will be the same .

Yes!! and no!!! ...(meaning, clarity required here to explain why yes is also no and no is slso yes)...LOL.

Hi Amanda .

In simple terms what I meant by that was for example, Adam hates spiders, and Eve doesn't _ what is of hate or fear that relates to the individual known as Adam has no direct relevance to Eve . Beyond the individual will of Adam and Eve there is the same essence in that there is no fear and no hate present or there is no Adam or Eve present to hate or be fearful .

x dazzle x
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  #27  
Old 13-06-2012, 03:03 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Hi Amanda .

In simple terms what I meant by that was for example, Adam hates spiders, and Eve doesn't _ what is of hate or fear that relates to the individual known as Adam has no direct relevance to Eve . Beyond the individual will of Adam and Eve there is the same essence in that there is no fear and no hate present or there is no Adam or Eve present to hate or be fearful .

x dazzle x

Daz, hello...I agree with the general statement...that where there is no individuated consciousness then all is one and in that sense one might say nothing individuated matters...thus nothing about Adam or Eve's individual perspective matters and ultimately they don't matter.

And yet I completely stand at the other end with regard to the focus. Yes is no and no is yes. One might also say everything matters and that the individuated expression of Adam and Eve, including their will, their character, their deepest inclinations and preferences are all expression of the Nothing. Nothing is Something...It is a lot of somethings. Adam and Eve are the proof of it. Individuated consciousness is the expression of the undifferentiated One...and it is every bit as divine and transcendant. Adam and Eve are every bit as divine and transcendant, for all they are works in progress. As are you and I and all the rest.

Nor does either Adam or Eve ignoring or mocking his fear of spiders (as we are wont to do to each other) help him to accept and cope and heal. Let's flip it...if instead of fear, Adam expresses a deep and positive, loving human need for individuated love with touch and presence, which is also a divine need expressed through him...do we ignore or mock him? Tell him that his spiritual evolution requires he get over it and merge with the One? How? By ignoring the needs of his very soul? Because throuch denial and containment we are guaranteed more wisdom than through courage and expression? We are humans and not machines. Is this true wisdom, utter fallacy or even sheer idiocy or cruelty? There are those who would scorn or mock Adam for expressing the deepest needs of his soul. What is the correct approach for Adam when he is scorned, mocked, ignored, or denigrated for expressing who he is? Should he listen to wisdom offered in this manner? Would you or I? Or should Adam cleave to the love of the One he channels in the face of what he perceives as a generic denial of what nurtures our humanity and a personal denial of his own needs and his own right to expression?

I would say that the One is speaking through Adam's heartfelt desires more truly than we do by telling him to ignore the wisdom of his heart and soul.
Those heartfelt desires speak to Adam of honouring his humanity and his individual needs -- whether for love and connection or for finding a way to coexist with spiders whilst still honouring his need for distance there. And his authentic expression of those desires contains a core aspect of his truth and his purpose, found in the knowledge and acceptance of himself within this existence right here, right now. In this moment.

How do we find healing and love and acceptance of ourselves and each other except by recognising how unique and precious we all are? Presumably Adam is more precious to Eve and she to him because of their soul connection and their ability to truly see one another, which is deeply humanising. But that we are all equally worthy is a generality I can live with.

Thus Adam's dislike or even primal fear of spiders, just as his need for love, touch and presence is of relevance and even of utmost importance to Eve because he is another human being, another soul. And how much more so if Adam himself is known to Eve and of heartfelt importance to her because of that connection? Why is it better not to care or to get past it or (as some may do) to tell Adam he is wrong or unevolved to be as he is, a human being with deep inclinations, needs, preferences, connections to others, and his own individual perspective and purpose in this universe?

Being accepted and loved for his individual and unique self and expression (both by self and by others), Adam can get on with finding that centre and harmony we all seek, both within and without of our bounded selves. He can get on with finding the healing and the love and support we all need in this existence. With being all he can be. He exists because he is meant to, as is Eve. He has a right to his own individual expression and needs and desires and purpose in this existence. As do we all. Can we toss off the deepest needs of our soul for love and connection and presence? Should we or Adam ever try to do such a damaging thing? Or will Adam have literally compromised his very soul and broken something real and beautiful within by so doing? If Eve doesn't respect his deepest needs, then Adam will need to either compromise where he can or else withdraw, even whilst ideally in expression of love and respect toward Eve.

I would say the degree to which our expression and needs and desires and purpose in this existence are honoured by one another will determine the degree to which there is outer or mutual resonance or harmony in any situation. I can honour and respect those needs in others. And I will. And I firmly both hope and expect that others will respect and honour my needs in the same way. The soul must find expression, love and acceptance in the ways that are honour and sustain each of us.

Peace & blessings,
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke

Last edited by 7luminaries : 13-06-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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  #28  
Old 15-06-2012, 02:46 AM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like


Something that was sent to me that had aspects of harmony mentioned .



Why Can't We All Get Along?


"In the linear, energy ebbs and flows between all participants. When the energy is a good match, the consistency of the exchange creates harmony. As one might suspect, disconnecting energy often indicates a poor match.

Relationships with others while physical are an important part of soul's development. Some are obviously more dear to you than others. Those less important, often allow you to walk away from a relationship that just doesn't work.

How then does one decide what to do when the relationship is very important to the structure of your reality?

First, it is important to understand that a poor energy match has probability of improvement. It may never be a perfectly harmonious one, but there can be a reconstruction if both parties are interested. The emphasis being placed on "both parties".


Working to achieve balance in an unbalanced energy requires great focus from all. A decision to be honest, with clarity of intentions, is important. There may be sticking points that will never resolve, but the two parties may be be able to come to energetic agreement. Enough to maintain the relationship in a positive fashion is the desire here.

Secondly, learn to participate. Be active within.the relationship. Waiting for others to come toward you in a conciliatory manner may keep you waiting a long time. Decide to set your ego aside and reach out to an energy who may not be as clear as you are in the moment. In the end, it doesn't matter who wins the argument. There are no winners when the relationship is abandoned.


Third: Try thinking with your heart. Again, both parties need to be on th same page here. Often a singular attempt may be met with negativity if both parties are not engaged.


We realize we will be asked why we have not addressed the world with all its people. Certainly there is a remedy to cure the world of its troubles.

Yes, there is a remedy.

It is you.

If all begin with themselves, the energy will spread to others. A peaceful virus that the world needs begins with you ...

This is lovely Daz. I like how it clearly ties harmony within to harmony without (of oneself), i.e. to harmony between persons. There is a level of harmony that can be attained between all persons but especially persons whom are important to the structure of our reality, i.e., those to whom we are deeply connected at the soul level.

What are your thoughts on this regarding yourself and your inner and outer harmonies, and how these two aspects of harmony connect or relate for you?

Peace & blessings,
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #29  
Old 15-06-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
What are your thoughts on this regarding yourself and your inner and outer harmonies, and how these two aspects of harmony connect or relate for you?

Hi Ya .

Left to my own devices within my own energy I hold a a tidy harmonious state lol .

I notice that certain Individuals and environments can distrupt this state but perhaps this distruption is skin deep as when I am left to my devices once again a level of harmony is restored .

What I have learned along my journey is what serves self and to that which doesn't .

I find that certain situations / environments like at work for instance I try and balance out the disharmony felt by using crystals and by reconnecting with nature when I can and so forth ..

Perhaps what would be ideal is to remain in harmony in a disharmonious environment but perhaps what is felt as disharmony in all respects is telling / showing the self something ...

Perhaps there is no such thing as disharmony outside of the so called individual as one mans sufferings is anothers blessing .

x dazzle x
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  #30  
Old 24-06-2012, 11:49 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Hey there Daz. sorry for delay...was away for a bit.
Well I see you have not really answered my question in your prior post...or so it appears to me at first blush, LOL

So here was my question...

Quote:
There is a level of harmony that can be attained between all persons but especially persons whom are important to the structure of our reality, i.e., those to whom we are deeply connected at the soul level.

What are your thoughts on this [=the level of harmony that can be attained between persons to whom we are deeply connected at the soul level] regarding yourself and your inner and outer harmonies, and how these two aspects of harmony connect or relate for you?

Now kind sir, would you mind addressing this at the level of interconnection and not just within your tidy self-contained yet ultimately disconnected universe of one?
Because I'd firmly wager that is not how most see the sum total of their existence or their core or centre of being. And, thus, of their harmony.
I'd even wager that you too Daz have a few persons in your life who stand within your circle of belonging, who truly love you as you are. Who are closest to your heart and soul. And coming to some sort of peace and place and presence with those you love is important and meaningful not just because, but for your own sake.

I understand your reference to work, as this is typically not where we have our deep soul connections. LOL! So work as a source of some disharmony is often the case for many. Not that we don't have things to work out there as well, as you noted generally.
But, work aside...on a more strictly personal level, what do you have to say regarding my question from your earlier post?

peace & blessings,
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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