Bodhisattva Vows

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by ayar415

There is no oneness

Yet I am you?

I've completely lost the plot!

[sky]

Originally Posted by ayar415

There is no oneness, sky. There is only you: your ego, your family, friends, and your dog, if you have one. Be real, get real, take care of your health, and make sure you have enough money to live on for the rest of your life.

You sound like the wave who thought it was seperate from the Ocean

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

Yet I am you?

I've completely lost the plot!

You've left in on the table in Costa's

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by sky123

You've left in on the table in Costa's

Quite possible. I should have simply concentrated on my cappuccino and kept my eye off the baristas.

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

Quite possible. I should have simply concentrated on my cappuccino and kept my eye off the baristas.

Karma

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

one would not hesitate to help their child, well when one is enlightened, all, everyone, is like our child, we love all.

Enlightened. You didn't give me the impression that you had "gnosis" and know - first hand - what it is. You have not made any claim that someone else - from the Buddha to Tolle - was enlightened. But you believe that such a thing is possible, and when it happens, then everyone is like our own flesh and blood child. I question that.

I renounced my family to explore the Krishnamurti teaching. No kidding. It wasn't a complete cut-off with no contact as is the case with the extended family. My parents set up a trust to fund my escapade. They know I am alive and that's about it.

Cutting off personal relationships, as Siddharta purportedly did, is necessary to be able to see how the self is made. The self is more than just a psychological entity, a view of oneself. Without you, or any other object, there is no me. And the welfare - one way or another - of a stranger on the sidewalk has no emotional impact on you. Not as painful as in the event of your child getting squashed by a falling chain block. Emotional pain is psychologically conditioned by personal relationships. This is why people mourn when a "loved one" dies while those next door are having a party. They cry harder if they are dependents and have lost emotional and financial support. This is not a belief and is verifiable empirically from experience.

So, I am enlightened - not spiritually aware but informed - with respect to loving all people. It is emotional vulnerability. One's mother or father or spouse is fashioned by the mind from a faceless stranger on the sidewalk to become an object of love. And a loved one could even be a stone, a figurine, in a church or temple, or the flag, flying on my front porch, that many have loved and died for by killing other people.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by sky123

You sound like the wave who thought it was seperate from the Ocean

I am separate from the ocean. Every wave has a personal bank account in the ocean of our financial system. I am into spirituality but not because I am a head case.

Do you still work for a living, sky? If not, and you are like me - free from the sea of waves running around doing their separate jobs to feed their separate families - and drifting far below in the deep silence of the ocean, you could lose your bearings. Not me. I am not the ocean.

Originally Posted by ayar415

Cutting off personal relationships, as Siddhartha purportedly did, is necessary to be able to see how the self is made.

I'd say if we have toxic negative "evil" people in our lives, we should end all relationships with them in my view. Especially if we are empaths or sensitive to such things. Their bad energy is wide and all who enter and live in it are affected in negative ways. Sometimes due to karma we are stuck with them for periods of time though. We can learn a great deal from these people sometimes.

Siddhartha's ex wife and son both lived with him in the monastic community he formed. Wasn't his ex wife the person he made the leader of the nuns? I forget and am too lazy to look this stuff up again.

Krishnamurti had a relationship with the wife of his book publisher I think I read and of course he was very close with his brother.

People define the word "enlightened" in different ways. It means different things to different people. To me, it is based on personal insight's I have had. It's virtually impossible to describe it to another who has not had the same insights. So it really is a personal journey we are on and ours and ours alone. Though everyone has a relationship with others. Even if it is just a cashier at our supermarket. Or somebody we speak to online. And karma is formed in relationship.

Even Saint Francis who was living as a hermit for sometime had people seek him out to give him food or to have some conversation. It's hard to not have any contact with other human beings. But if we have peace within, and others disturb that, it is worthwhile to seek eh. But then if we can maintain peace within, while in the company of others, it shows we have even more advancement. But then like I say, toxic evil people have power as well. Negative energies they can spread to others.

In the astral world, places are divided by vibrational level, so we will only be with souls like ourselves. On earth this is not the case. On earth families are made up of souls of many different levels on purpose as it leads to faster growth in spiritual things. Out of conflict comes understanding as we seek to end all conflict within and without.

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by ayar415

Cutting off personal relationships, as Siddharta purportedly did, is necessary to be able to see how the self is made.

Sujata the milkmaid gave the Buddha to be a bowl of milk rice (kheer) which revived him and gave him the strength to finally achieve enlightenment (call it what you will) He then saw the house-builder who would then "build no more."

Obviously, the little girl might well have spent hours musing on Gotama's intent and decided he was on the make........ (a gold chariot behind a tree waiting to carry him home)

As the Good Book days:- And a little child shall lead them.

(Please don't ask me to explain. It seems to be wasted)

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

As the Good Book days:- And a little child shall lead them.

(Please don't ask me to explain. It seems to be wasted)

Ah the pennies dropped