Ego/I/self/Ahamkara is the Self that thinks he/she is separate from oneness....

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

This u have repeated in many times to imply spiritual people as schizophrenic. Closeness in brain in no way determines they are same . Many things remain close but are diametrically opposite . e.g. Oxygen (which sustains fire ) and hydrogen (inflammable itself ) coming close and form water particle which douses fire ! . So closeness in brain area to derive / imply some conclusion is incorrect and invalid in science which u seems to so proud.

I don't make implications, Hitesh, if that's what I thought I'd just come out and say it. I've always said that the frameworks of people's own Spirituality is what's in their noggins, and Spirituality doesn't suddenly appear out of nowhere. As the saying goes, "Religion is for those that are afraid of going to hell, Spirituality is for those that have been there." My own personal interests lie where Spirituality and the internal stuff meet, and having worked in mental health gives you a very different slant on our personal reality and how it's created. So in the context of Soul Contracts for instance, how does the flipping of the schizophrenia/Spirituality gene come into that?

Spirituality and schizophrenia are not close, it's either/or. "There but for the grace of God go I" and all that stuff.

Actually, the experience of being schizophrenic is surprisingly Spiritual. And the understanding that if the ego/Ahamkara weren't perceptually separate we'd go insane.

Another question I have is, in the context of self awareness how does cognitive behaviour, cognitive dissonance and our Shadow Self affect our beliefs? If people are only aware of some 5-10% of their total consciousness how self aware are they really? With those numbers I couldn't look in the mirror and say "Hey Greeny-baby, you're so self aware buddy." I think of these things, sometimes. And no it's not judgemental, since this is a thread about Ego/Ahamkara this is the understanding of how the perceptual separateness ego/Ahamkara affects our Spirituality and its frameworks.

The more self-aware you become - either by way of mental health issues or understanding those internal frameworks - the less solid 'I' becomes and the closer to a Spiritual understanding we become
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPdsAPlK2Js
Link from JASG

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

As I see it "This, That & Both" is no different in essence than "Two Steps to the Not-Two". https://youtu.be/kPdsAPlK2Js

It's near impossible, short of Grace, to understand "Both" and "Not-Two" without first having a firm understanding of the relationship of "This" & "That"/"Two Steps". That's the purpose of tradition and practice.

You've given me the link to that video before and yeah, that's another understanding of going beyond Duality. It also helps to understand the 'practicalities' of a perceptually separate ego/Ahamkara and how being separate is useful.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Since one is all and all is one, we humans as physical humans are having both a physical spiritual experience and spirit having a human experience.

Sorry but I couldn't help myself, not long after replying to Hitesh about Spirituality and schizophrenia and JASG with his "Two Steps to the Not-Two." Gotta love that consciousness loop with the Universe.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Sorry but I couldn't help myself, not long after replying to Hitesh about Spirituality and schizophrenia and JASG with his "Two Steps to the Not-Two." Gotta love that consciousness loop with the Universe.

As you said, Our human sense of I AM/Self have symbiotic relationships with the physical and non-physical universe, whether we are conscious and aware of and like those symbiotic relationships or not.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

As you said, Our human sense of I AM/Self have symbiotic relationships with the physical and non-physical universe, whether we are conscious and aware of and like those symbiotic relationships or not.

But isn't it interesting when things happen on a more conscious level?

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I don't make implications, Hitesh, if that's what I thought I'd just come out and say it. I've always said that the frameworks of people's own Spirituality is what's in their noggins, and Spirituality doesn't suddenly appear out of nowhere.
Spirituality and schizophrenia are not close, it's either/or. "There but for the grace of God go I" and all that stuff.

Within the scope and interests of yours you are very much right. And I believe i understand that.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Actually, the experience of being schizophrenic is surprisingly Spiritual. And the understanding that if the ego/Ahamkara weren't perceptually separate we'd go insane.

Another question I have is, in the context of self awareness how does cognitive behaviour, cognitive dissonance and our Shadow Self affect our beliefs?...

Spirituality has processes like sublimation / divination /introspection / confession / repentance / meditation etc which uncovers /discovers hidden unknown part of unconscious and makes the seeker aware of those parts . Of course not all people claiming to be spiritual may have undergone such processes and may enter the domain of schizophrenia . But that's true even for person not claiming to be spiritual.

While there can certainly be mental health issues in a person , all i say the connection to spirituality is at best random .

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Within the scope and interests of yours you are very much right. And I believe i understand that.

Sometimes I read these "What is reality?" posts, and if I could I'd dump all kinds of mental health experiences onto some of the posters' laps because that would radically change the way they perceive reality. It's been said that religion is for those that are afraid to go to hell and Spirituality is for those that have been there, and even after having pushed emotional Life traumas away they still remain in the Shadow Self until they are dealt with directly. Those traumas - even if they're from childhood - can affect a person's sense of 'I am' and therefore 'colour' Spirituality.

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Spirituality has processes like sublimation / divination /introspection / confession / repentance / meditation etc which uncovers /discovers hidden unknown part of unconscious and makes the seeker aware of those parts . Of course not all people claiming to be spiritual may have undergone such processes and may enter the domain of schizophrenia . But that's true even for person not claiming to be spiritual.

Those processes all need a high degree of honesty before they can be properly addressed so even if a person is going through the process they might be pushed back down again because the person doesn't want to admit to their own flaws. Calling oneself a 'Spiritual being' can be a reason for detachment, which can be a personality aberration because people can think they are above normal people and certain things don't apply to them any more. That's when Spirituality is no longer Spirituality but a mental health issue. All of those those 'creates' the ego/Ahamkara and unconsciously alters a persons' Spirituality.

A person is a person first and foremost but there's a fine line between being Spiritual and schizophrenic, and it's only an act of nature which is way beyond out control that makes the difference. And sometimes the conscious choices we make are not 'ours' per se. There's a fine line between being a Spiritual being and having a personality issue, and if someone uses the term to describe themselves how Spiritual and self aware are they really?

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

While there can certainly be mental health issues in a person , all i say the connection to spirituality is at best random .

"Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simple a way of life, pure and original as was given by the most high. Spirituality is a network linking us to the most high, the universe and each other."
Haile Selassie

This is where Spirituality and general mental health 'meet'. We all have incarnated into this world, we are all Spirits blah-de-blah so how can Spirit not have a Spiritual experience? If we are Atman and therefore Brahman/Brahma why do we need the 'Spiritual' prefix to make us feel better about who/what we are? Did we not Love ourselves enough to give ourselves this experience?

You see Hitesh, past the Spirituality that's built on mental health (good or bad) and other unconscious processes there's a very different Spirituality.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

But isn't it interesting when things happen on a more conscious level?

Yes, when you include your mind as a whole, and you do not dismiss or ignore any aspects of your mind.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Yes, when you include your mind as a whole, and you do not dismiss or ignore any aspects of your mind.

We are in a consciousness loop with the Universe and having consciousness isn't anything special really, because even an atom has/is consciousness. What differentiates us what what we are conscious of, and how that manifests.

[alanantic]

"God sleeps in the rocks, stirs in the plants, dreams in the animals, and finally awakens in man." -- Vedic Quote