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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #781  
Old 24-03-2020, 09:08 AM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by A human Being
Just on this one point - does there have to be the thought of 'I am' in order to know that you exist?
If there is the thought of "I am" then for you "I am," because the thought doesn't exist without the thinker. Anything else beside that is perceptual/agenda. There is a state of consciousness that is beyond thought where "I Am" is consciousness itself and there is nothing else.
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  #782  
Old 24-03-2020, 10:30 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Nah Daz, and nobody here with enough of a self to use a keyboard it seems.

The irony is that people aren't listening to themselves and they can't seem to make their minds up if there is a self to take umbrage and offence when others disagree with them - which are both choices by the way. Maybe people can't distinguish which Self/self is at play at any given time.

I think that's what's going on Daz, people aren't seeing the meaning behind it. The Universe is the way it is for its own reasons so if we think think it should be some other way, what does that mean? The personality exists and as far as the human aspects are concerned it's fundamental - it's how we experience this reality. Our experience of this reality isn't 'governed' by the ideologies and theologies it's 'governed' by our response to the interaction between our inner and outer worlds. Spirituality is a response to that interaction the same as sulking is.

Personally I think the wrong questions are being asked. If people are trying so hard to not identify with their self, what does that mean? And not just from a psychological perspective but also how that affects their Spirituality. Often it reflects other issues that the subconscious is trying to express in its own way.

We are supposed to be multi-dimensional beings but where does that sit with one-dimensional thinking? We aren't beyond the mind/body world because we're (and they) are sitting in a forum. If we were beyond the mind/body we'd be dead.

Good luck with those answers.

Hey Mr non existent Green Man ..

Hehe .. the crux of the matter is (and David has also touched upon) is that the same means as to bring truth to the self is the same means as to poo poo the self also .

Like you say if people are trying so hard to not identify with their self what does it mean? Well for starters one needs to look at what is it that is trying so hard lol .. The real Self (don’t make me larf) . This is the how bonkers it is? Is the real Self whatever that is, spending time teaching others when there is no one really here listening apart from an illusory appearance of a peep .

All this jazz about speaking the truth from a beyond mind perspective and grand spiritual Sanskrit talk are all equally mindful no matter how poetical or spiritual the words sound . They are all made up in mind . There hasn’t been one answer come forth as yet to answer me how beyond the mind identifications that are truthful makes it’s way to eventually roll off the tongue as something that is above a mindful concept .

The youth that shouts out profanities is as mindful as the guru that speaks about the illusory self .

This is the guru mind trap that certain peeps fall into when trying to elevate themselves above the crowd, but there is no crowd only an illusory one, so it’s all self defeating and riddled with holes and contradictions .

If however there is a foundation and a platform for Self that is real and encompasses everything that is, including the person, the personality, the individual then everything will reflect this foundation and will be true and real so to speak .

This is why we have problems here getting any answers from anyone because their foundation doesn’t permit it or allow for it .

When you hit a brick wall regarding not being able to answer straightforward questions about teachings that are supposed to be the Truth then one would have to ask themselves why is it I cannot answer simple questions lol.

The energy of this not being able to answer feeds upon itself and will eventually simmer down either when the questions stop or when one admits to the flaws in such a teaching .


x daz x
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  #783  
Old 24-03-2020, 04:29 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,847
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara5
You said it, J !

.
Thank you for the Robert Adams' inspiring passages.
All valid.
All helpful.
All useful.

Wondering why so many apparently find the content so difficult to accept.
It's actually pretty standard Jnana Yoga.

~ J
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  #784  
Old 24-03-2020, 04:33 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Location: Southwest, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
There is a state of consciousness that is beyond thought where "I Am" is consciousness itself and there is nothing else.
Yes.
Just wondering if you have experienced this,
if you are ok talking about something so profound?
__________________

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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #785  
Old 24-03-2020, 04:56 PM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Hey Mr non existent Green Man ..

Hehe .. the crux of the matter is (and David has also touched upon) is that the same means as to bring truth to the self is the same means as to poo poo the self also .

Like you say if people are trying so hard to not identify with their self what does it mean? Well for starters one needs to look at what is it that is trying so hard lol .. The real Self (don’t make me larf) . This is the how bonkers it is? Is the real Self whatever that is, spending time teaching others when there is no one really here listening apart from an illusory appearance of a peep .

All this jazz about speaking the truth from a beyond mind perspective and grand spiritual Sanskrit talk are all equally mindful no matter how poetical or spiritual the words sound . They are all made up in mind . There hasn’t been one answer come forth as yet to answer me how beyond the mind identifications that are truthful makes it’s way to eventually roll off the tongue as something that is above a mindful concept .

The youth that shouts out profanities is as mindful as the guru that speaks about the illusory self .

This is the guru mind trap that certain peeps fall into when trying to elevate themselves above the crowd, but there is no crowd only an illusory one, so it’s all self defeating and riddled with holes and contradictions .

If however there is a foundation and a platform for Self that is real and encompasses everything that is, including the person, the personality, the individual then everything will reflect this foundation and will be true and real so to speak .

This is why we have problems here getting any answers from anyone because their foundation doesn’t permit it or allow for it .

When you hit a brick wall regarding not being able to answer straightforward questions about teachings that are supposed to be the Truth then one would have to ask themselves why is it I cannot answer simple questions lol.

The energy of this not being able to answer feeds upon itself and will eventually simmer down either when the questions stop or when one admits to the flaws in such a teaching .


x daz x
Hey figment of my(oh my) imagination

I think David and I are already on the same page on this subject, as are you it seems. People identify with themselves as 'Spiritual' people and as soon as the prefix is applied they dissociate with the 'human' aspects of themselves. I wouldn't think they'd dissociate or try to run away from what they enjoy or perceive value in so perhaps their identification with themselves has found themselves lacking.

For me, the question is not "What is non-identification with personality?" but "What are the reasons someone doesn't like their personality very much?"

Elevating themselves above the crowd is their response to their perceptions of themselves and their identification with something other than themselves. As is elevating themselves to a point beyond having to answer such questions.

Often Spirituality has underpinnings that people simply don't want to deal with, and it's not until those are dealt that the answers will be forth-coming. I wonder how many have followed Buddha's teaching and have actually questioned themselves about on-identification.
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  #786  
Old 24-03-2020, 05:25 PM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Yes.
Just wondering if you have experienced this,
if you are ok talking about something so profound?
A few times, Miss H, and often under strange circumstances. I have a fractured personality due to trauma I suffered as a child, and my consciousness has been able to 'detach' completely from the brain/mind mechanism completely. It also means that I don't have the same sense of 'I am' as most people because there are times when I'm simply unable to identify with myself. Sometimes it happens because of trauma, the last time being when I was involved in a car crash that I should never have walked away from.

The most memorable time was when I was watching a swallow, it seemed as though the swallow was making friends with me because he seemed to be 'following' me. I wanted to be conscious of what the swallow was conscious of. I suddenly felt a 'shift' and I was suddenly conscious of being only consciousness. There was no thoughts, no sense of 'I am' or anything else that most would associate with as experiencing while being. It was a windy day but there was no feeling of wind, it was bright but there was no experience of sunlight or anything physical/mental/awareness/thought/brain-mind mechanism.

Perhaps that was what the swallow was conscious of, because its mind doesn't have to get past itself - perhaps it was only conscious that it was consciousness itself.

It's really difficult to put into words because it's beyond the capability of words to describe.
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  #787  
Old 24-03-2020, 05:40 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Location: Delhi, India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
A few times, Miss H, and often under strange circumstances. I have a fractured personality due to trauma I suffered as a child, and my consciousness has been able to 'detach' completely from the brain/mind mechanism completely. It also means that I don't have the same sense of 'I am' as most people because there are times when I'm simply unable to identify with myself. Sometimes it happens because of trauma, the last time being when I was involved in a car crash that I should never have walked away from.

The most memorable time was when I was watching a swallow, it seemed as though the swallow was making friends with me because he seemed to be 'following' me. I wanted to be conscious of what the swallow was conscious of. I suddenly felt a 'shift' and I was suddenly conscious of being only consciousness. There was no thoughts, no sense of 'I am' or anything else that most would associate with as experiencing while being. It was a windy day but there was no feeling of wind, it was bright but there was no experience of sunlight or anything physical/mental/awareness/thought/brain-mind mechanism.

Perhaps that was what the swallow was conscious of, because its mind doesn't have to get past itself - perhaps it was only conscious that it was consciousness itself.

It's really difficult to put into words because it's beyond the capability of words to describe.

***

Intriguing. As pure consciousness then, in as you say a mind-body transcended state, identityless ... yet, what would you say the essence of consciousness was felt to be in a becoming? Was there time & space? How long did the state of being last?

***
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  #788  
Old 24-03-2020, 07:22 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Hey figment of my(oh my) imagination

I think David and I are already on the same page on this subject, as are you it seems. People identify with themselves as 'Spiritual' people and as soon as the prefix is applied they dissociate with the 'human' aspects of themselves. I wouldn't think they'd dissociate or try to run away from what they enjoy or perceive value in so perhaps their identification with themselves has found themselves lacking.

For me, the question is not "What is non-identification with personality?" but "What are the reasons someone doesn't like their personality very much?"

Elevating themselves above the crowd is their response to their perceptions of themselves and their identification with something other than themselves. As is elevating themselves to a point beyond having to answer such questions.

Often Spirituality has underpinnings that people simply don't want to deal with, and it's not until those are dealt that the answers will be forth-coming. I wonder how many have followed Buddha's teaching and have actually questioned themselves about on-identification.

It was as if I wrote this reply to myself ..


x G.S. x
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  #789  
Old 25-03-2020, 03:00 AM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
A few times, Miss H, and often under strange circumstances. I have a fractured personality due to trauma I suffered as a child, and my consciousness has been able to 'detach' completely from the brain/mind mechanism completely. It also means that I don't have the same sense of 'I am' as most people because there are times when I'm simply unable to identify with myself. Sometimes it happens because of trauma, the last time being when I was involved in a car crash that I should never have walked away from.

The most memorable time was when I was watching a swallow, it seemed as though the swallow was making friends with me because he seemed to be 'following' me. I wanted to be conscious of what the swallow was conscious of. I suddenly felt a 'shift' and I was suddenly conscious of being only consciousness. There was no thoughts, no sense of 'I am' or anything else that most would associate with as experiencing while being. It was a windy day but there was no feeling of wind, it was bright but there was no experience of sunlight or anything physical/mental/awareness/thought/brain-mind mechanism.

Perhaps that was what the swallow was conscious of, because its mind doesn't have to get past itself - perhaps it was only conscious that it was consciousness itself.
It's really difficult to put into words because it's beyond the capability of words to describe.
Thank you! Yes, it is very hard to put into words. You have experienced something many people never have and
will have a hard time imagining even. So thanks.
__________________

.
*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #790  
Old 25-03-2020, 07:05 AM
Tara5 Tara5 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Thank you for the Robert Adams' inspiring passages.
All valid.
All helpful.
All useful.


Quote:
Wondering why so many apparently find the content so difficult to accept.
Coz, you are not to understand Advaita by the mind.

Osho says, if you have never tasted sugar, whatever I do, there is no way to explain the taste of it to you.


Quote:
It's actually pretty standard Jnana Yoga.

~ J

yes!

.
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