The Depraved

Originally Posted by Gem

Socrates made the statement in context with wisdom, how you don't need to know much to be wise,

Which shows he knew, or understood, or was aware of, a great deal. More than others.

Like that old saying, "can't see the forest for the trees" Socrates explicitly demonstrated he knew or understood or was aware of more than others when he said "you don't need to know much to be wise." If he said that. I've read Plato, not Socrates. Plato's Allegory of the Cave is a great piece of philosophy.

The issue I would say is the meaning of the word "knowledge." Or what does "to know" mean?

Really in English, words like, knowledge, understanding, awareness, wisdom, are interchangeable depending on the context. According to what one is trying to represent or communicate in language and words.

It's like "book smarts" verses "street smarts." Applied lived knowledge. Bring in the elements of experience and perception. Like knowing tennis from a book or from playing it. Who knows more, one who has only read about tennis or one who has played it? Depends on the meaning one is after.

The word knowledge is not only applied to book learning. One can say in English, that person who does not read or write, has never formally studied music or piano, who sat down at a piano for years and years and learned wholly by themselves, is wholly self taught, who mastered it by themselves, and became a master pianist, has an immense knowledge of the piano and the music one can create on it. They know a great deal eh!

If more of humanity saw the bigger picture, were aware of more, knew more, the world would be a better place.

Originally Posted by sky123

Jesus told the Pharisees, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” Matt. 23:23.

That was not judgement, they were evil. Direct perception. But yea you don't believe in things like sin or evil. I see it like I see an apple in my hand as did Jesus.

Originally Posted by sky123

Actually this phrase is not one that Socrates is recorded as saying

I was quoting Gem as you know. I've never read Socrates. The point is the phrase, not who said it lol.

EDIT: actually I was quoting davidmartin who was quoting gem lol. I didn't read back too far.

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

That was not judgement, they were evil.

Which is judgmental ......
"Why do you think evil in your hearts?”
Matthew 9:4
Judgemental.
Many many more...... Luke 11:29, John 3:19,John 7:7 etc: ....... This is my fav: judgement " Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.” Matthew 23:27

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

I was quoting Gem as you know. I've never read Socrates. The point is the phrase, not who said it lol.

EDIT: actually I was quoting davidmartin who was quoting gem lol. I didn't read back too far.

It is strange though to discuss a Quote by a certain Person which actually isn't recorded as being spoken by that certain Person

Originally Posted by sky123

Which is judgmental ..."Why do you think evil in your hearts?” Matthew 9:4 Judgmental. Many many more...... Luke 11:29, etc: .......

It's judgmental to you because you don't believe in sin, or evil, or right and wrong. To others, who do believe in these things because they know them to exist, it's not judgmental. It's just a fact. You don't believe in the authority of Jesus as God to have the knowledge and a direct perception of who has evil and sin in their hearts?

Some people have evil in their hearts. Jesus saw this. Jesus was pointing out a fact as he saw it, he was not judging them. But see to Jesus, it was also a fact that such people were not saved. They did not have everlasting life. They did not have life in the Kingdom of God. So it was also not a judgement that they would go to hell or were in hell. But then you don't believe in hell either. But one does not have to accept the words and teachings of Jesus or of Christianity. Join a different religion or none at all.

Is it a judgement to say a dog attacking children is wrong? Maybe to you yes, to me no. To me it is wrong. No if ands or buts. If an adult trained that dog to attack children and let that dog loose in a park, they are evil. No gray area for me. Nothing about judgement at all. Such a person would be factually evil to me or "depraved" as in the title of this thread, lacking in morals or morality. Not knowing right from wrong. Harming others intentionally and without good cause or some good intention.

Your way of seeing things is not unusual. There's that whole big movement now of letting people out of prison, or not punishing people for crimes or bad deeds. They don't want to judge anybody or anything. But it's not judging! It's a fact some are good and some are bad! There is good and bad, right and wrong. There is no gray area in this. The gray area is why they are bad. Sure maybe they had bad childhoods, are poor, are hungry, are on drugs, were abused, but that does not change the fact they did or are doing bad things. Things harmful to others or society as a whole.

So what to do with them is debatable, how to change their behavior, but to debate if the behavior in itself was bad or not, that is delusion to me. If a society or culture stops defining what is good or bad, right or wrong, all it does is gives the bad or evil free reign. More innocents get harmed.

Originally Posted by sky123

It is strange though to discuss a Quote by a certain Person which actually isn't recorded as being spoken by that certain Person

Here you go:
I know that I know nothing!
Now you can quote me instead of worrying about the reputation of somebody who died in 399 BC! Your problem has been solved!

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

It's judgmental to you because you don't believe in right and wrong.

It's judgemental because Jesus judged others, it's written in Scriptures for all to read There's nothing wrong with being judgemental, it depends on 'Intent'. Btw I most definitely DO believe in right and wrong actions.

[BigJohn]

And if a person presumed somebody did wrong, how long would they hold it against that person?

Originally Posted by BigJohn

And if a person presumed somebody did wrong, how long would they hold it against that person?

Some let go and some don't.