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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Most Anything > Philosophy & Theory

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  #1  
Old 02-06-2025, 05:12 AM
lotusmind lotusmind is offline
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Mind and the Matrix of Language

I am raising a point i have raised before concerning the pernicious incarceration the Self experiences within the human mind. This realm is (yes i know it's cliched) the "matrix" a huge conundrum of thoughts and ideas all linked by language...perhaps the 'falling letters' well known to The Matrix folk (yea the movie with Keanu Reeves Lawrence Fishburn et al) hint to this same idea...everything we know to exist is really just seemingly endless strings of letters/numbers.

Of course if anything is bound by language such as the world of experience then that world must also be bound by the rules of syntax that govern logical reasoning too because how can a thought or idea be perceived as being real and existing if it violates those particular rules of logic. This then underpins most claims that nothing exists at all if it violates "logic" ergo God doesn't exist neither does the afterlife etc etc.

The question then begs how does one (to borrow a cliche again) escape the Matrix? Well you'd think it'd begin by realising the futility of approaching consciousness relying solely on logic and reason and looking elsewhere. The metaphysical systems of the East begin from this understanding: that the mortal world is really an endless conundrum of language and escaping it begins by understanding how it works and why it exists in the first place.

aum shanti
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Last edited by lotusmind : 02-06-2025 at 07:25 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2025, 12:51 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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so to me the paths out mostly seem along the lines of, well get yourself so sick of it that you just wanna stop and quit with this. Or like christ did make the rewards so rare that that in the end a risk/reward analysis doesn't make it worthwhile to continue taking risks given what one will get out of it.

But where would you go if you did go out?

Well it seems to me there is another place, and not only that everyone knows about it, it isn't at all a 'secret' reserved for 'the worthy'... but the rules we all agree to about it are only conducive to not learning about it and staying in mind...

the 'seals' talked about in revelation seem very real to me...

for example one might get addicted to some aspect of it, which totally ruins any possibility of learning how to honestly interact with what one is relating to. Or just as likely one might decide that the aspect presented isn't worth anything, and start going to some effort to avoid it entirely... and even if somehow one does decide there is something of worth there it comes down to wanting to communicate what one has found to others... so... back to mind...

sigh...
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2025, 04:38 AM
lotusmind lotusmind is offline
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@Falling_Leaves

Interesting take thank you! Not sure i am entirely on the same wavelength but definitely some of what you've written resonates.

I am interested in the "seals" you've mentioned. Are these basically "creases" in the Matrix from which one can escape?

namaste
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2025, 08:18 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusmind
I am interested in the "seals" you've mentioned. Are these basically "creases" in the Matrix from which one can escape?

so the seals are like sealing a wine bottle with a cork so that air can't get in...

basically it is meant to keep us out of eden so we won't die lol... in the terms presently discussed we are trapped in the matrix....

from what I can tell, for whoever designed this place it is a matter of convincing people they don't WANT to do something you don't want them doing lol... because if they don't want to do it themselves they won't get uppity and figure out how to do it....

there is a lot more to it than that of course because there is a lot going on in people's heads, but that seems to be a basic building block....

for example a lot of people prefer strength to weakness... the tao te ching busted that one open but even so most are not listening... and there is a LOT of that going on, personal preference for one 'sub-par' way to relate to life/and or others rather than acceptance of another 'more beneficial' one.

That kind of prefence keeps one into one reality, and sealed away from getting the benefits of the other reality's possibilities...

In the strength one people don't see the point of trying it the other way because everyone knows strength is good and weakness is bad... some of the stronger preferences actually have people afraid of or disgusted with the alternate being presented.

Lots of seals....
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  #5  
Old 05-06-2025, 06:14 AM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Yes some people never give a thought to why and what mind entails, influences and traps itself, by thoughts, words or stories it tells itself.

I think therefore I am as I think, is more powerful than many think, until they explore, what that actually is creating as itself and as the experiencer.
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To truly know the peach, we need the concepts to reveal its possibility, but we also must taste the peach to realize what the concepts refer to- Jacob Kyle
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  #6  
Old 05-06-2025, 03:23 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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How does one escape the Matrix?
lotusmind, could the word Illusion or Maya be substitued? Are they synonymous?
And yes, I had to look up how to spell that.

Interesting thing to point out: There is big difference to 'wake up' in the Illusion or Matrix or Dream...that this IS a Matrix....
as opposed to waking up OUT of the Illusion, Matrix.

Ref: ''The Disappearance of the Universe" by Gary Renard.
(Get it? When you actually do wake up OUT of the Matrix the Universe disappears! Ha!)
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones...Meditate unceasingly, that you may
quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery.
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  #7  
Old 20-06-2025, 04:54 PM
deci belle deci belle is offline
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Well this is really the nexus of the matter, Lotusmind— in terms of effective self-refining practice.

The dissolution of the matrix can be directly realized (over a long period of time) by eliminating one's internal dialogue at the most fundamental, basic level of constant, subtle chatter relative to sensual and rational(?) perceptions being being judged by… who?

This who is basically irrelevant, because "who" doesn't exist in any form other than by its function. This perpetrator of needless self-reification perpetuation has become a robocop. That the matrix is held in suspension by none other than words is the critical factor. The who's compulsion to perpetuate self-reflective activity is a purely psychological momentum of arbitrary units of "meaning" called following thoughts unawares.

The matrix is another word for karma. The psychological apparatus of the being that is going to die is a bundle of functions relative to having a body— it's really a brilliant functionality; but it's not real.

Ok, so karma is all there is to work with in terms of creation, but fortunately, awareness is not created. Furthermore, "who" is actually a simple problem due to its having jumped its tracks by usurping the identity of the real, when "who" is just the absolutely capable administrator of perfunctory affairs relative to traffic control amidst creation's elementally kinetic and incrementally fluxing aggregate comprising our delusional realm of wonder and terror.

Quote:
I am raising a point i have raised before concerning the pernicious incarceration the Self experiences within the human mind

What is liberation?

In the most basic way, it is the absence of "who's" mental chatter. This takes a lifetime of subtly continuous, nonjudgemental 24/7 mind by mind observation. This isn't a matter of formal meditation practice, which has never amounted to much more than practice in preparation for real practice.

Though some people seek trance-states as a method of comfort or else accrue astral adventures by such activity— all this does is strengthen the illusion of the person— which is the antithesis of liberation. Seeing reality as is without egologic affirmation, frees up creation's potential, in terms of spiritual (nonpsychological) evolution, because so much energy is wasted in sustaining the illusion of the person.

By analogy, the sundering of polite Southern culture became the sound of Rock and Roll. Hello Elvis, Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison and Carl Perkins (no band did more covers of Carl Perkins than the Beatles). The freeing up of this energy is a tremendous boon: to, from, and by universal good.

Real practice is spontaneous responsive subtle adaption to conditions in terms of any given set of relationships defined by the situation, not the person. The person realizing that it is the guest of a situation, whatever and however such parameters may be playing themselves out at any given time and place, sees relative to the situation, not the person. Such "selfless" orientation is neither good nor bad, just nonpsychological. By introducing the term as such, above, the word "spiritual" does not reference any aspect of the psychological realm. The spiritual or nonpsychological realm is the realm of liberation. It does not displace bondage to endless karmic cycles nor change any aspect of delusional existence, so only those bound to creation are still free to do so, at their own peril.

Those who have reverted to the primacy of the nonpsychological are not beholden to birth and death of cyclic karmic evolutionary perpetuation, in terms of situational contexts, yet subtle response is what it is. Face it, Jesus got a raw deal. The sixth patriarch of Chan (buddhism) survived all attempts on his life, except for the last…

In other news, eventually, ego craps out under the scrutiny of one's unbending intent, by virtue of continuous subtle observation of mind by mind, and through step by step gradual practice, one begins to see reality without the incessant "instant replays" forever looping in the self-reflecting psychological apparatus' egologic— or if one does, such "replays" are seen in the context of the situation, which is the definition of "objectivity".

No one needs to know— even so, Mother Nature takes note, and initially doesn't make it easy for the audacious to "take over creation and steal its potential." This being the real reason for achieving liberation, which I won't address for now. One might ponder the analogy of Rock and Roll…

Ultimately, there is no escape, as reality and delusion not only look the same because they are the same, the fact of their actual undifferentiated unity IS the basis of transcendent enlightening activity. Karma and potential are one; there are no two minds— the matrix is wholly of one's own making. Therefore it is perfectly reasonable and possible to un-make this matrix, put you-know-who in its place, and discover (and explore) the realm of one's inconceivable being, by virtue of one's karmic existence.




ed note: change "pure" to "purely" and italicize last three words of last line in 3rd paragraph; add "that" in 2nd line of 11th paragraph; add "by virtue of one's karmic existence" to last line of last paragraph
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  #8  
Old 20-06-2025, 05:50 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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so yeah the fundamental problem for me in wanting to go someplace else is that in the end I'm not going to be able to tell the difference between 'here' and 'there' anyway... unless I keep going down the path I'm going on and just keep recreating a sense of difference to make my mind happy lol... but that wouldn't be as much a difference as a sense of difference so what would be the point?
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  #9  
Old 20-06-2025, 09:37 PM
deci belle deci belle is offline
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Yes, people are wont to arrive at this easy "so what" principle.

Quote:
No one needs to know— even so, Mother Nature takes note, and initially doesn't make it easy for the audacious to "take over creation and steal its potential." This being the real reason for achieving liberation, which I won't address for now. One might ponder the analogy of Rock and Roll…

FallingLeaves seems not to be exhibiting the audacity of those whose intent is the will for enlightenment… much less carrying out its purpose of enlightening activity before and after the sudden.

Obviously, there is a reason why I wouldn't divulge the real reason for seeing reality and adapting real knowledge to conditions, hmmmm?

Your good-natured but lazy comment references equivocality, not equanimity. biG difference. Not that it matters at this point of one's evolution, because neither equivocality nor equanimity are relative to the subtleties of inconceivable spiritual adaption. They are both termed "relative" in nature, being within the sphere of provisional teaching.

The point of the OP is bondage, relative to a poignant observation of the Matrix of Language, expressed as a "pernicious incarceration" of Self.

What would be the point of Master FallingLeaves' "so what" attitude?

Quote:
"so yeah… "having somewhere else to go… "but that wouldn't be as much a difference as a sense of difference so what would be the point?

I would suggest not bothering to ask at this point, mr Master, unless yours is a troll's procedural action aimed at cloture due to the nature of your own yaddayaddayadda… if it's all the same to you~ on your way to somewhere else more important than where you are right now…

A creature of habit~ OUCH.

How can I blame you❤︎
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  #10  
Old 21-06-2025, 01:40 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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thank you for your wonderful soul-bashing!

I sometimes think I'm the only one who realizes, that those things are actually good for you... lol...

well you don't like me so no need to say more...
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