The beginnings of Gnosticism in Christianity?

[Morpheus]

Look up the teachings of the Nicolations.
Who's teachings Jesus clearly says He hates, in the letters dictated to John the Revelator!

In His letter dictated to John concerning the church of Thyatira, He states He will put these false teachings from a person known as "Jezebel", on a bed of illnesses, and He will take all her offspring from the world prematurely!

This is not your God of the O.T. which you want to condemn, this is Jesus, in the New Testament!

Gnostics want to teach you can recognize Jesus on some spiritual level, and do whatever you want in body.

Jezebel, in the city of Thyatira, taught that people could commit fornication in dedication to Balaam, and that it was fine!

However, Jesus said OTHERWISE.
No wonder many Gnostics dislike the Bible, and Biblical canon.

So, what is the difference between Gnostics, and Luciferians? Who don't believe in anything but,
"What they see"?

[inavalan]

Luciferianism is a belief system that venerates the essential characteristics that are affixed to Lucifer. The tradition, influenced by Gnosticism, usually reveres Lucifer not as the devil, but as a destroyer, a guardian, liberator, light bringer or guiding spirit to darkness, or even the true god as opposed to Jehovah.

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: "having knowledge") is a collection of religious ideas and systems which originated in the first century AD among early Christian and Jewish sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) over orthodox teachings, traditions, or the authority of the church. Viewing material existence as flawed or evil, Gnostic cosmogony generally presents a distinction between a supreme, hidden God and a malevolent lesser divinity (sometimes associated with the Yahweh of the Old Testament) who is responsible for creating the material universe. Gnostics considered the principal element of salvation to be direct knowledge of the supreme divinity in the form of mystical or esoteric insight. Many Gnostic texts deal not in concepts of sin and repentance, but with illusion and enlightenment.

[Morpheus]

Thanks for the delineation.

I have offered the alternative explanation regarding the angelic nature of Adam and Eve, and a whole new history and timeline involving our present organic form, and nature.
See my notes of prior posts.

As we can see, "Paradise" is about a greater reality and Truth involving the timeless.
You think this material existence is primary?

All of Christ's disciples were martyred for their faith.
Go order "Tortured for Christ". Learn something.

Gnostics do not believe the historicity of the scriptures. They could care less about the Essenes records which they recorded confirming our present translations.
Don't believe in Christ's physical incarnation. Or, in His prophesied atonement for all of the world.
Despite His own words to the contrary.
Reject the Bible and canon and are not therefore Christians.
Again, having no foundation regarding the hodgepod of their beliefs.
Not Christians. No matter what they describe themselves as being.

Go ask the aberrant farce here what they think of the O.P.

[Altair]

Gnosticism is odd. I don't recall Jesus saying he believed in a 'demiurge' or evil creator. Gnosticism seems attractive to those who wish to ''unite'' Eastern thought with a belief in Jesus, and also attractive to those that are into self-deification.

It takes an odd and depressed personality to believe that ''the world is evil'', IMO, be they Gnostic, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim or anything else. Happy, people don't believe in such.

Not sure what the point about ''fornication'' is all about. It is ''Sexual intercourse between people who are not married to each other'' (can be consensual and without cheating).

[Morpheus]

Well Altair, you don't see a problem with public orgies? And, in devotion to some false god?
You should look up, Balaam.

As well, the world is evil having to do with our present organic situation, and involving the fall.
Not because of the Lord.

You don't see Jesus making a point of it in the scriptures?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Well Altair, you don't see a problem with public orhies?

As well, the world is evil having to do with our present organic situation, and involving the fall.
Not because of the Lord.

I wasn't thinking of orgies there but two people not married but in love.
I know many Christians believe sex should only be for married couples, and I disagree.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Well Altair, you don't see a problem with public orgies? And, in devotion to some false god?
You should look up, Balaam.

As well, the world is evil having to do with our present organic situation, and involving the fall.
Not because of the Lord.

You don't see Jesus making a point of it in the scriptures?

You could blame God for the ' Evil '... The God depicted in the ot is a very good Teacher on how to practice ' Evil '.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Thanks for the delineation.

I have offered the alternative explanation regarding the angelic nature of Adam and Eve, and a whole new history and timeline involving our present organic form, and nature.
See my notes of prior posts.

As we can see, "Paradise" is about a greater reality and Truth involving the timeless.
You think this material existence is primary?

All of Christ's disciples were martyred for their faith.
Go order "Tortured for Christ". Learn something.

Gnostics do not believe the historicity of the scriptures. They could care less about the Essenes records which they recorded confirming our present translations.
Don't believe in Christ's physical incarnation. Or, in His prophesied atonement for all of the world.
Despite His own words to the contrary.
Reject the Bible and canon and are not therefore Christians.
Again, having no foundation regarding the hodgepod of their beliefs.
Not Christians. No matter what they describe themselves as being.

Go ask the aberrant farce here what they think of the O.P.

INTERESTING TOPIC!

Gnostics claim they believe........ but their beliefs resonate with anti-Christianity and not with 'hidden' knowledge which is deceptive in of itself.

They can cleverly manipulate virtually anything to make God look bad but they offer only criticism and nothing of real value. They can't even tell you who is their own God which is telling in of itself.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

INTERESTING TOPIC!

Gnostics claim they believe........ but their beliefs resonate with anti-Christianity and not with 'hidden' knowledge which is deceptive in of itself.

They can cleverly manipulate virtually anything to make God look bad but they offer only criticism and nothing of real value. They can't even tell you who is their own God which is telling in of itself.

' but their beliefs resonate with anti-Christianity and not with 'hidden' knowledge which is deceptive in of itself.'


Yet you personally start a Thread about the Gospel of Thomas which is Gnostic, tut tut tut....
You've not mentioned it being ' Anti Christian '

[Altair]

What sources do Gnostics even use in their defence that Jesus is on their side?

Like John, I am suspicious of ''hidden knowledge''. Why should knowledge be hidden?