Justice is the advantage of the stronger

[Ordnael]

That is a quote by Thrasymachus, a sophist from ancient Greece.

A society creates an ideal of justice and attempts or pretends to live up to it, but doesn't true justice transcend opinions of what is good and bad, right and wrong?

For example, a person may commit a crime and be punished for it, like faking a document, and if he didn't get away with it he was only caught because the system was stronger than him, thus, proving that Thrasymachus is right.

Others may commit crimes and not be punished accordingly, or depending on what they did not even be considered criminals in the society which they live.

E.g. a company killing all life in a river due to an oil spill, the owners of the company will not be treated the same way that a bank robber is treated, even though killing and destroying is worse than stealing paper.

Can you prove that what we call justice is not simply the advantage of the stronger?

[Hologram8]

might is not right

[inavalan]

sophist: a person who reasons with (apparently) clever but fallacious arguments

What you described is corruption, not justice. If some people got away unpunished for their crimes, it doesn't mean that those who didn't get away (and were punished) were wronged. They weren't!

Often, overthinking is hazardous to people's logic.

[Beautiful]

Can you prove that what we call justice is not simply the advantage of the stronger?

yes. partner cheats on me, we break up.

[FallingLeaves]

then again its been said the only true strength lies in weakness... getting away with stuff like that because you can doesn't serve other than to make others admire you.

Originally Posted by Ordnael

That is a quote by Thrasymachus, a sophist from ancient Greece.

A society creates an ideal of justice and attempts or pretends to live up to it, but doesn't true justice transcend opinions of what is good and bad, right and wrong?

For example, a person may commit a crime and be punished for it, like faking a document, and if he didn't get away with it he was only caught because the system was stronger than him, thus, proving that Thrasymachus is right.

Others may commit crimes and not be punished accordingly, or depending on what they did not even be considered criminals in the society which they live.

E.g. a company killing all life in a river due to an oil spill, the owners of the company will not be treated the same way that a bank robber is treated, even though killing and destroying is worse than stealing paper.

Can you prove that what we call justice is not simply the advantage of the stronger?

I think we shouldn't handle justice, as it turns in revenge because of anger, grief, loss.. Whatever the feeling, everybody agrees to say that humans are not reliable. People should focus on their healing when "wrong" is done to them, because when we do "bad" we invite in more.

I cannot "prove" it, but what as humans we call "justice" is at the disadvantage of everyone.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Tim here

I think we shouldn't handle justice, as it turns in revenge because of anger, grief, loss.. Whatever the feeling, everybody agrees to say that humans are not reliable. People should focus on their healing when "wrong" is done to them, because when we do "bad" we invite in more.

I cannot "prove" it, but what as humans we call "justice" is at the disadvantage of everyone.

So, did you suggest anarchy?

Originally Posted by inavalan

So, did you suggest anarchy?

No, not at all. It would be the same in a way since it's just the other end of the scale.

You said that it was corruption that was described, and I agree with you, because justice can be corrupted, just as a human being or an obese cat. Not everytime, everyday or everywhere, but it can be.

Really I meant that people should worry less about the punishement and more about their healing. Not trying to "redo" the system here lol

[Ordnael]

Interesting replies here.

Concepts change from generation to generation. What was accepted ages ago is no longer accepted. My understanding is that true justice is a mystery, all humans can do is to speculate, create a provisional justice and keep improving it. It is supposed to benefit the majority, but if the majority or those in power are neither wise nor well intended, then the name Justice is a false front.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Ordnael

Interesting replies here.

Concepts change from generation to generation. What was accepted ages ago is no longer accepted. My understanding is that true justice is a mystery, all humans can do is to speculate, create a provisional justice and keep improving it. It is supposed to benefit the majority, but if the majority or those in power are neither wise nor well intended, then the name Justice is a false front.

Justice's purpose is to protect society. Punishment is relevant only as much as it is a deterrent for criminals and criminal wannabes.

Justice should be swift and fair to minimize anger, fear, hate.

Everybody should be considered innocent until proven guilty. The fact that the justice isn't perfect (who/what is perfect?) isn't a reason not to apply it, while working at improving it.

We often make the mistake to believe that we have all the facts, know the laws, and are able to make the correct judgement (like when watching a movie), and jump to conclusions, sometimes applying street justice. That's wrong and should be punished too.

Again, justice should protect society, and minimize anger, fear, hate.