An Eye for An Eye. - Spiritually !

[Dan_SF]

Ah now i would not fall again to answer in the Christian forum, for here, in the Spiritual section, my answer is more appropriate.

In the past, (some 2~3 years ago), i have had these same thoughts coming up.

"An Eye for an Eye, A tooth for a Tooth." - from the Bible, obviously. (German language, if anyone wants to know all the details)

Why were it coming up, i do not know, it seemed to be totally random. And by selftalk iv always explained it to myself like this:


Restore the Eye or the Tooth, to the one who lost it.

That's the only valid solution, which would go with God's thinking. (read: which would please the Lord)

[sky]

Originally Posted by Dan_SF

Ah now i would not fall again to answer in the Christian forum, for here, in the Spiritual section, my answer is more appropriate.

In the past, (some 2~3 years ago), i have had these same thoughts coming up.

"An Eye for an Eye, A tooth for a Tooth." - from the Bible, obviously. (German language, if anyone wants to know all the details)

Why were it coming up, i do not know, it seemed to be totally random. And by selftalk iv always explained it to myself like this:


Restore the Eye or the Tooth, to the one who lost it.

That's the only valid solution, which would go with God's thinking. (read: which would please the Lord)

' An eye for an eye," was actually derived from the ancient Babylonian Code of Hammurabi, as a restriction on retaliation for personal injuries. It was used in the bible but didn't originate from there.

[kuurt]

From an A Course In Miracles perspective, it is the words of the ego - the personal separate self (false self) that seeks revenge. The spirit within knows that we are all One and what you do to another you do to yourself. Revenge is an attack thought which makes you perceive your brother as separate from yourself. Jesus taught forgiveness because it restores your mind to truth and right mindedness and reminds you that separation is an illusion.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Dan_SF

Restore the Eye or the Tooth, to the one who lost it.

That's the only valid solution

That is a noble and evolved re-imagining. Very nice. Makes me realize how far I still have to go. I could never restore my enemy's eye, I hold too much resentment towards those who have done me wrong. I have not evolved my capacity to forgive. Thank goodness for countless lifetimes!

[hallow]

I feel it's important to pick and choose your battle's with a clear head. How many times does a person forgive before becoming a doormat? I understand it is important to forgive but where's that line?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by hallow

I feel it's important to pick and choose your battle's with a clear head. How many times does a person forgive before becoming a doormat? I understand it is important to forgive but where's that line?

A person who truly forgives would never feel like a doormat. That would be my observation. Feeling like a doormat suggests resentment and expectation -- looking for, but not getting, something in return for their forgiveness. Forgiveness to me implies letting go, a clear slate and new day, looking to the future. Feeling like a doormat implies hanging on to old baggage, living in the past, continuing to look backwards at past wrongs.

Originally Posted by kuurt

From an A Course In Miracles perspective, it is the words of the ego - the personal separate self (false self) that seeks revenge. The spirit within knows that we are all One and what you do to another you do to yourself. Revenge is an attack thought which makes you perceive your brother as separate from yourself. Jesus taught forgiveness because it restores your mind to truth and right mindedness and reminds you that separation is an illusion.

It's a viewpoint indeed and a spiritual path but not the only one. I tend to look on it as spirituality = pusillanimity; the way to peace is submission and being a doormat. How many times does one turn cheeks to get slapped without a) taking exception or b) getting fed up and walking away hoping your assailant doesn't pursue? Nice if day to day living was as simple.

The need/will to restore equilibrium may take more of a warrior spirit but is no less a spiritual path. It doesn't mean you have to go on any attack - that isn't vengeance. A war mentality pays if you need to win. Jesus could get angry as he showed the money-lenders.

Vengeance is one of those words that's earned bad press. Justice is about restoring equilibrium. It's an euphemism for community-approved vengeance. Without it, every sort of criminal act would go unpunished in a human condition where not everyone is a Jesus...been the same since the dawn of humanity. Come to think of it Jesus' alleged dad was vengeful and went on the attack, allegedly destroying entire cities because he didn't like what one or two people were up to - in the full knowledge those people were creatively using the faculties He gave them.

The current fashion for soft, submissive spiritual paths doesn't mean they're the only tao. It's all in the Tree of Life really - everything in equilibrium. Best when you see trouble in the eyes of someone you'd otherwise call a friend, turn away and avoid the need for vengeance or prevarication or forgiveness. Have nothing to do with them - or at least set up your defences. You save a lot of dispiriting hard work!

As for ego, you are your ego unless you're a hermit or an entity that defies definition. You are the sum of your life experiences with maybe a bit of hard-wired stuff. The front is your ego. Pretend if you like but to claim ego is irrelevant is saying that there's nothing that differentiates us one from another. Fine for the solipsist or hermit but useless for people in contact with other people and an environment.

[kuurt]

You are not the ego, the ego isn't even real - it's an illusion. The truth about you is that you are One with Source - a spark of the divine.

I think when Jesus said turn the other cheek, he didn't mean be a doormat and take other people's abuse. I don't think there is anything wrong with standing up for yourself. To me, turn the other cheek just means, at the end of the day forgive them because they know not what they do - those who attack are not in their right minds. If they were they wouldn't attack in the first place.

This is my own take on it and nobody has to agree, but it's my belief that God is not vengeful and did not destroy cities. I believe extraterrestrials were visiting the earth back in those days and people thought they were God because they were more advanced and could do things that we couldn't.

I think extraterrestrial's destroyed sodom and gomorrah and flooded the earth. They wanted to alter the dna and recreate better humans. Which I think is why man use to live hundreds of years before the flood and no more than 120 after the flood. In the bible it says something about man living to 120 years.

It also explains how Mary became pregnant when she was a virgin - extraterrestrials artificially inseminated her. Even today there are women that claim this has happened to them. And I think the extraterrestrials even told them what to name him and where to go.

The wise men were not lead to where Jesus was born by following a star. A star isn't going to lead you to a specific home. But a spaceship might.

Jesus was a hybrid - half human, half alien. An advanced soul, from previous lives. Incarnated here to show us humans once again how to live out of the spirit. There have supposedly been other enlightened beings before him who were also supposedly born of a virgin.

God is not jealous, angry, or vengeful. God does not tempt a man to kill his son just to test him to see if he will do it. Extraterrestrials perhaps, but not God. In one place in the bible they got it right - God is pure love, unconditionally loving.

Does it have to be ego that makes us different? Could not every part of the divine have been made unique like every snow flake? Do snow flakes have ego?

[Dan_SF]

Originally Posted by hallow

How many times does a person forgive before becoming a doormat? I understand it is important to forgive but where's that line?

I could only point to that line in you. But it is your part to look on it, and to decide.

Ill give you an example:

(p.s. look on the each example separately, as if they were done once. at least think about them individually)

(*** start of the experinent ***)

If i tell you that you are a Stupid idiot. Would you forgive me ? (note:unknown person to you)

If your wife tells you the same, you probably would agree. ( well, for this example sake, lets say that you would) - (note:Loving person to you)

If your Boss tells you the same, when you are alone, would you forgive him? (note:higher positioned person, related to your Job)

If your Boss tells you the same in front of all other co-workers, whats then ? (note:higher positioned person, related to your Job)

If the president of your country tells you the same, on the TV, where it can be heard internationally, would you forgive ? (note: ... nevermind )

(***end of the experiment ***)


If you have followed the examples, you will recognize that it all depends on the cicumstances.

Moreover, if you look internally, then it seems as is all up to YOU to forgive.
For it is you who take one case and count losses and winnings and by it you chose if it is to forgive or not.

(lets define counting loss and winnings as judgement)

If you take it Personally, then there is only small chance for forgiveness, because they are attacking your beliefs, by disagreeing and judging your actions/doings.

But if you would not judge, then your natural reaction would be Forgiveness. Because you would, then, not take it PERSONALLY, and so you would react with Positive thinking.
You would take others arguments, for which they called you names, and look if there was an error on your part, and would see and decide if it was appropriate, and change your behavior, if it were not.

Hint: If you have followed these examples, then you will see that the process of judging is somewhat instant. As if you were expecting it.


At the end, you will recognize that the line is set by you. is it ?
but what about others and their expectations ?

No, the line of your forgiveness is only set by you, even if you judge the expectations of others, it is you who is setting and deciding where this line for yourself will be !



Please forgive me the use of words on you in this example .

Light and Love to you.

Originally Posted by kuurt

You are not the ego, the ego isn't even real - it's an illusion. The truth about you is that you are One with Source - a spark of the divine.

We're individually entitled to our beliefs and yours and mine differ. However, the idea of ego has been so prostituted and abused that the inclination to forget that it's the Latin word for "I" is rife. It's common use references Freud's map of the mind. Whether it's an illusion or not it's the public front of our Selves, the superficial self that allows us to interact with others and our environment. It's our identity. It has a repertoire allowing us to adapt to conditions that change moment by moment.

It's what let's you post your response, likewise me, because the circuitry that comes through from the soul goes through all sorts of neurophysiological filters to relate an immediate stimulus to our base data of past experience coupled to our ability to strategies (also experiential, being the totality of our success/failure of strategising in the past). It's what lets you hold your particular views and me, mine; because the way we assimilate new experiences depends on our experiential summation to date. It's the ego that lets us recognise common and uncommon features about every encounter.

It might be an illusion - but good that it's there. Otherwise, without an identity we'd have nothing to distinguish ourselves from anyone or anything else. Have a look at the state the world's in. Does that display everyone having no identity or conforming to a singular identity?

We may all come from the same source originally but through the many emanations that finally produced a material world containing, inter alia, humans, we've all been finalised differently.