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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #451  
Old 22-09-2020, 06:08 PM
janielee janielee is offline
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Pretty sure that's what it is.

The so-called "Two Truths" would be evident to any practicing Buddhist of realization, no need for theories and words. Sometimes students need frameworks, and this is a helpful one which enriches the intellectual understanding until one lives it more.

Jmv.

JL
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  #452  
Old 23-09-2020, 03:36 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
It's perfectly fine and people who find it interesting should go into it. I still maintain that some smartypants monk just made it up for sake of something else to say, but that's also OK, maybe it's better than saying the same old thing over and over again.

Religion and philosophy can be nice placeholders to point to or be representative of truths, but at some point, non-conceptual reality and "what is" is lived. Truth itself is the pointer. Exploring and living beyond the conceptual. Once one gets serious, and lives what the religion or philosophy pointed to, the pointing is not only not necessary, it is, in fact conceptual and keeps one living from and with the wrong reference point.

All of us who have been into things like Buddhism and philosophy a long time will notice they still react to various things in negative ways. Why is that? Well it's simple. We are still in the thought stream way too much, way too often, having it be our point of reference as we encounter and experience what is "out there." Really the thought stream is not "out there" at all. It is manufactured reality within us. Optional reality. Our attention does not have to be on it at anytime. It does not have to be experienced. But that takes commitment and self discipline and staying aware.

Speaking about this is not conceptual if we are aware of the non-attached state while we speak, and listen. But then if one is in a non-conceptual state, what interest is there in a description or pointing to it? None. Posts like this are meaningless. Empty words. As all words are empty. The now free of words and concepts is what is lived and held as the most preferred way to be.

I was going to say, things like the "two truths" are non-sense, but that depends. In conceptual living, we make things whatever we want, using language and thought. So someone could easily make such concepts into the most important holy thing and it would be to them. And the word "non-sense" is meaningless in itself. Adding interpretations to things in the thought stream is delusional, as the interpretations are also the thought stream.

The observer is the observed..... the same thing. The thinker is thought.
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  #453  
Old Today, 01:50 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
Religion and philosophy can be nice placeholders to point to or be representative of truths, but at some point, non-conceptual reality and "what is" is lived. Truth itself is the pointer. Exploring and living beyond the conceptual. Once one gets serious, and lives what the religion or philosophy pointed to, the pointing is not only not necessary, it is, in fact conceptual and keeps one living from and with the wrong reference point.


That's right. Buddhist philosophy merges the intellectual and practical component. Religion is irrelevant with respect to dhamma which universally applies to everyone regardless of their religion, tradition and what have you. I think religion is like a charade of costumes, symbols, repetition and icons, all of which are unimportant where dhamma is concerned. Hence it makes no difference what religion a person is, or isn't, and even a Buddhist can practice dhamma.


Quote:
All of us who have been into things like Buddhism and philosophy a long time will notice they still react to various things in negative ways. Why is that? Well it's simple. We are still in the thought stream way too much, way too often, having it be our point of reference as we encounter and experience what is "out there." Really the thought stream is not "out there" at all. It is manufactured reality within us. Optional reality. Our attention does not have to be on it at anytime. It does not have to be experienced. But that takes commitment and self discipline and staying aware.


Yea, it isn't to be perfect, it's just to understand - in Buddhist terms - 'the cause'. It is hard, requires all of attention.

Quote:
Speaking about this is not conceptual if we are aware of the non-attached state while we speak, and listen. But then if one is in a non-conceptual state, what interest is there in a description or pointing to it? None. Posts like this are meaningless. Empty words. As all words are empty. The now free of words and concepts is what is lived and held as the most preferred way to be.

I was going to say, things like the "two truths" are non-sense, but that depends. In conceptual living, we make things whatever we want, using language and thought. So someone could easily make such concepts into the most important holy thing and it would be to them. And the word "non-sense" is meaningless in itself. Adding interpretations to things in the thought stream is delusional, as the interpretations are also the thought stream.

The observer is the observed..... the same thing. The thinker is thought.




Well,to make the claim the observer is the observed seem like a truth statement, but it's actually like the subject of an indepth discussion and isn't like the 'right answer' or anything like that. There is not conclusion for the mind to grasp as knowledge, there's really only the truth: 'this is how it is' as it is experienced, in the way it is experienced by you. The only question is, are you paying attention.


In the Buddhist philosophy there are dependent origins, which basically means the experience materialises momentarily as consciousness with the senses and objects, not as a separate enduring self experiencing passing things, but a similtaneous, momentary arising of consciousness, but there a that which was never born and never dies beyond that, which is always a mystery and has no answers.
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  #454  
Old Today, 05:37 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Well,to make the claim the observer is the observed seem like a truth statement, but it's actually like the subject of an indepth discussion and isn't like the 'right answer' or anything like that.

Yes it's only true if one sees or realizes that. Otherwise, the "observer" is taken to be the self. Continues to be projected as self.

"This is what I think about that thought...." As Krishnamurti said, there is a use for that. It's how we build and create. We need that to function in life. Krishnamurti's question just was, do we need that in all of life? Is there a part of life in which that identification can be discarded?

Thought is like a tool we use to do certain things. Using memory and learned knowledge and all of that. We create with this tool. But then to use it as such, while not identifying with it as self or identity.
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  #455  
Old Today, 05:53 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
The only question is, are you paying attention.

yes am I aware of what I am as distinct from the current mental content or interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
In the Buddhist philosophy there are dependent origins, which basically means the experience materializes momentarily as consciousness with the senses and objects, not as a separate enduring self experiencing passing things, but a simultaneous, momentary arising of consciousness, but there a that which was never born and never dies beyond that, which is always a mystery and has no answers.

That is always here and has always been here. That is me... and everything. It's like a golden needle in a haystack. We are giving our attention over to all that hay. But this body and mind we are merged with is such...this culture....these relationships... are like a laser pointer on a wall to a cat.... just..... can't..... look.... away.... lol.

I'm sorry, but this thing over here.... it's just too interesting..... she said this and that.... and I think this and that.... and he said this.... and this here.....

To turn around and see the divine....! To pursue that above all else. and then the How? How is also that laser pointer on the wall.
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