From Dual to Non-Dual

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by lemex

Do the Non-Dual create the Dual and why. Why does the Non-Dual want to be Dual. Of course the Dual wants to be Non-Dual. I find this an interesting discussion.

Hi lemex,

Hoping you are open to views from others also , I share my understanding .

Non-duality wants to experiences the myriad feeling of play (in duality) besides blissful experience (of non-duality)

People like us can think why so . The answer lies with us only . If one thinks about all sports activity , it may thought as meaningless exercise without any meaning , lot of extravaganza , lot of unwarranted conflict / misgivings/pains, that too for the benefit of few sports persons only. Yet we play sports and organize Olympics at world level and rightly so - reason we want our citizens to develop , have the ability to compete and win against adversity - in sports and in life . And in the process we create myriad games with umpteen rules . This is perfect and no sane person will have any query /complaint in all these sports activity . The same way God too wants his creations to develop and experience all His creation .

But one will recognize that sports/play of all kind are tiring ,energy drenching,exhausting,causing fatigue/pain. So to rejuvenate /re-energize one's orientation to Non-duality blissful experience comes in handy.

While non-duality is real life experience and happens whether one believes in it or not , intentional intense uninterrupted non-duality orientation (without feeling of separation/otherness) can enrich the life experience of the seeker and all around him by making it real,varied,beautiful and sustainable .

[Goldcup7]

Originally Posted by lemex

Do the Non-Dual create the Dual and why. Why does the Non-Dual want to be Dual.

The strict Non Dual answer is that duality is not real. So there is no question of cycling between the two, and no question of duality being created, because nothing real is created.

The Non Dual doesn't want anything. This doesn't satisfy the mind. If pushed for an answer as to why a world of duality seems to appear I'd say that opposites and duality are the method by which the unseen Reality can seem to be expressed. So the world appears as an expression of Oneness by means of opposites. The world appears as if Oneness split in two and multiplied. But it is an illusory separation in the timeless Oneness.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Goldcup7

The strict Non Dual answer is that duality is not real.

Ok, I'll have to accept this. As far as Oneness duality seems to be real to it. It seems to me Oneness creates duality by its very nature if it does so forever. The physical is an illusion but consciousness however is not, so even though consciousness is real, certain consciousnesses are an illusion is what is being said. But this goes on forever, I don't get it. Oneness has no mind or awareness then, right.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by lemex

Why does the Non-Dual want to be Dual?

My answer is it is like the question "Why does somebody want to lift weights?" One lifts weights to become stronger. The way this human body incarnation is designed and this human life I think the purpose is to increase in awareness.

Humans find themselves in conflicts, unhappy, not getting what they want or need, and the only way forward is more knowledge and understanding and awareness.

I think that's why this world was created. It is a place to send aware energy entities into physical forms in order for them to evolve and get "stronger." "Stronger" in the sense of more wisdom, awareness, and understanding.

I don't think of "oneness" as one thing. I think of it as the many that make up the totality. Drops in the ocean, the many, make up the totality, Oceans. The atoms that make up the air we breath, the many, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon etc that make up the totality, Air. Every aware entity on earth, the many, that make up the totality, our source, sometimes referred to as "God." I think the totality of consciousness awareness is so far beyond what we can conceive to call it "God" limits what it is to absurd smallness. What is the human IQ range? Like 70 to 140 more or less. The IQ of the totality would be in the trillions. (or more - a number so big we cannot imagine it)

[Goldcup7]

Non Duality teaching is often about self enquiry and finding out for yourself. The teaching can only point to truth. If you trust it it can help to find the truth. But don't take my word for it. :)

Imo Oneness is Awareness/Consciousness. All we know is Consciousness, and the mind, body and world are experienced in Consciousness, so made of Consciousness. There is only Consciousness. :)

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by lemex

Of course the Dual wants to be Non-Dual.

I think all want an experience of total peace, of having no conflict within or without. Feeling love for everybody and everything. To see the beauty of nature and everything around us. To feel loved. That experience I think is found when one stops being dual, identifying with this ego and it's conditioned mind and instead transcends this false self.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Non-duality wants to experiences the myriad feeling of play (in duality) besides blissful experience (of non-duality).

This is more what I sense goes on. The very nature of consciousness must have duality. Daulity is from Non-Duality if I am saying the same thing as you. I suppose this being my difference.

The answer lies with us only.

This is a most interesting and accurate answer imo. I've heard this stated many times here in many different ways. But I'm was very happy to hear the mention of God because I was wondering what part God plays. I don't see God absent from this. This to may be a difference.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think all want an experience of total peace, of having no conflict within or without.

Imo, absolutely. One of the foundational experiences.

[lemex]

Thank you all for your input.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by lemex

Daulity is from Non-Duality if I am saying the same thing as you.

I'm was very happy to hear the mention of God because I was wondering what part God plays. I don't see God absent from this. This to may be a difference.

You are right . Duality stems from non-duality ,it empowers duality and brings life to duality and NOT the other way round . That is where duality is unreal (in the sense of temporary , transient , temporal , fleeting,changing) .

Non-dual in non-duality is God - pure consciousness . God is integral part of Non-duality . While normal day to day duality dealings may happen on auto-pilot mode for God , but for real non-duality people He may put His entire Force as totally unpredictable / unexpected phenomena /results/outcome.

I am very happy that there lot of people with very good understanding of non-dual reality (although may be with some difference which are more nuances than substantial difference) .Thanks for your question and right understanding of the spirit.