Utopia and afterlife

[Starman]

Iamthat. I embrace what you have shared but also have another perspective. Utopia is about pleasure, it is about an ideal existence. But our human standard of idealism keeps changing and progressing. I can remember as a kid how I was satisfied to play hide and seek, or to have a hula hoop; most kids today would not find pleasure in those things. An most likely the kids of tomorrow will not find pleasure in the things that satisfy kids today. For humankind idealism is progressive, it is not a stagnant thing.

In this world, which is transitory, people chase happiness and most find happiness very illusive. They say to themselves when I finish high school everything will be okay, then when I finish college everything will be okay, when I get married things will be great, when we have children it will be great, when I get that new job it will be great, when I get a divorce things will be wonderful, etc., etc., etc. Some even think when I die things will be much better in the afterlife. All of these things are just chasing happiness. Contentment is in short supply.

I just want to be happy not realizing that true happiness is an inside job. Yes, we have to deal with the physicality of human existence, but while I am in this world I know I am not of this world. As the saying goes, “it is not so much what life does to us as it is how we respond to what life does to us.” We are all going through growing pains; problems are challenges for us to grow. We create the problems and then we look for solutions to the problems we have created.

Everyone is in their own unique place, or stage, of growth, but it is not a competition. We grow at our own pace. The incredible thing is that once we reach a utopia stage of growth, it is difficult to share it in words because it is a state of being which transcends our physicality. So we have to deal with our physical nature until we come to learn how to get our needs met in spite of our physical nature and human culture. Each person knows the truth by finding it for themselves. It is the nature of the human trap for us to navigate ourselves out of it while remaining in it.

Peace and Good Journey

[JoeColo]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

ExcerptBut, I must say, tho you may not realize the power of words...

There's nothing I can say to make things any better.

JoeColo

[JoeColo]

It's not that our world is so bad, how can anyone find Utopia? It's that it's so incredibly "loud" like a heavy metal band, and to top it off, our society is so relentlessly concretely physical, how can anyone find Utopia, when our society is so extremely "un-Utopia-like?"

For me, Utopia is a higher bar than inner peace. It's fairly easy for me to imagine someone achieving the latter, even though our world is not conducive to it for most people, but totally impossible for me to imagine for the former.

JoeColo

[Lord_Viskey]

i find it far more preferable to visualize that a better place exists - (and to deeply visualize its entire structure, dynamics, & community functionality) - than to accept my entrapment in a worse place where i am convinced that i do not belong.

keeps me waking up to face every day until Gabriel blows that horn for me to return to it.

[Joe Mc]

Good thread. The idea about Utopia reminds me of the idea about Perfection. Seems the word Perfection is mostly understood in a general way which refers to our bodies and lives. "Oh he is suffering from Perfectionism " "Oh I wish I had the perfect job or perfect wife etc. " But I've often gotten the feeling that perfection is hardwired in humans, that all humans recognise the concept of perfection and perhaps strive for it too. Perhaps it can be aligned with the Concept of Love, I'm sure it has been throughout history.

We all recognise when something is approaching perfection in an act or a work. We say to ourselves that is perfect, we know what perfection is. Utopia in this regard would be perhaps some kind of extension of Perfection in location, time or space, or concept etc. But you could argue then it wouldn't be perfection as the concepts of time and space etc. are divisive by nature. So big and small, beginning and end are imperfect when viewed in a certain way.
It might also be argued that there is 'Real Perfection' and self centred ideas of perfection. The fruits of real perfection being, love, unity, sharing, harmony, creativity etc. You shall know the tree by it's fruits.

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[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Utopia in this regard would be perhaps some kind of extension of Perfection in location, time or space, or concept etc. But you could argue then it wouldn't be perfection as the concepts of time and space etc. are divisive by nature. ... The fruits of real perfection being, love, unity, sharing, harmony, creativity etc. You shall know the tree by it's fruits.

Yes, there is the idea that if the cause is perfect then the effects cannot be anything other than perfect.

But as we gaze around at the world we see all the apparent imperfections of limitation.

Yet if we could really see the world from the perspective of Higher Consciousness then we might see everything as magnificent perfection, everything cooperating in complete harmony, everything being exactly as it is meant to be.

Glimpses of this are given in some descriptions of near-death experiences. I guess both perfection and imperfection are in the eyes of the beholder.

Peace

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Yet if we could really see the world from the perspective of Higher Consciousness Glimpses of this are given in some descriptions of near-death experiences.

We can bring a little love and sanity into our lives that's for certain. We can help those who are weaker etc. We can attend the flowers in our garden and the children and love ones in our care. We can try not to become angry with it all even though there is so much to be angry about. We can awaken our own minds and the minds of others.

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[Native spirit]

I have had three NDE and believe me if i could take a photo of what I saw you would not believe it.
where as we see colour here it is dirty mucky colours. to see it the other side of the Veil they are so bright fresh unpolluted that is something to smile about


Namaste

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Starman

Utopia is about pleasure, it is about an ideal existence. But our human standard of idealism keeps changing and progressing.

This made me curious about how Utopia was originally described in Thomas More's book of 1516. This is summarised at https://pressbooks.pub/earlybritishl...s-more-utopia/

Sir Thomas More was the first person to use the term “utopia,” describing an ideal, imaginary world in his most famous work of fiction. His book describes a complex community on an island, in which people share a common culture and way of life.

And later:

The overarching theme throughout the book is the ideal nature of a Utopian society. In Utopia, there is no greed, corruption, or power struggles due to the fact that there is no money or private property. There is very little hierarchy and everything is held in common where everyone’s needs are supplied.

Which suggests that Utopia is not so much about pleasure - that would be more a society based on hedonism, the doctrine that pleasure or happiness is the sole or chief good in life. Such a society is driven by the pursuit of satisfying selfish desires, rather than living in group harmony.

Peace

[AstralTraveller]

Originally Posted by Native spirit

I have had three NDE and believe me if i could take a photo of what I saw you would not believe it. where as we see colour here it is dirty mucky colours. to see it the other side of the Veil they are so bright fresh unpolluted that is something to smile about


Namaste

I have not had any NDE, but I have AP, and I know what you mean, the colours are very vibrant and bright, unlike anything here. Only joy and positivity too.