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  #191  
Old 24-12-2020, 01:28 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I know that I know It (some what) well, also I know that I know It not so well. Who amongst us comprehends It both as the known and not much known, alone has the right understanding.

It's like my face. I know it's there but I can't see it. I can only see its reflection in a mirror. I also know if the mirror is shattered my face is still there.

I know that I know It - Consciousness - (some what) well. It illumines mind and all the knowing of mind is but Its illumination (reflection). I also know that I know It - Consciousness - not so well as I only know It indirectly by Its illumining of mind. Whatever I can point to - contents of mind including thoughts, beliefs, emotions, sense of I Am - is not It but merely Its illumination. I also know when body and mind are no more It still shines.

Though I can't directly point to It (I know It not so well) I know that I know It (some what) well by the very fact I'm conscious. It's self-revealing, self-evident and the only aspect of my existence that's unchanging, whereas contents of mind are ever-changing (as is the body - it's born, ages and eventually dies), mere events in the field of Awareness. The changing illumined by and within the Unchanging. The contents of Consciousness.
Consciousness and you knowing consciousness are still thoughts and beliefs you have in your mind. Your mind that supposedly is not your true nature. This line of imaginary thinking in the mind, creates a problem where none exists, ignores and dismissed the true problem, which is the false and misleading contents you have in your mind, and creates excuses for arrogance, hypocracy and contradictions to support them.

The mind is not the problem, the problem is false and misleading contents of a person's mind/conditioning.

How do you know for a fact that (your) consciousness will shine, when you die, when you are not dead yet?

P.S From whom is the quote from you put in blue?
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  #192  
Old 24-12-2020, 01:49 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Hey Mikey ..

I think peeps really do need to just get there heads around the basics like you have touched upon.

It can get so complicated at times when this is overlooked and have seen you bang your head on the forum walls as much as I have at times

Peeps NEED to simply establish a foundation of what you are and apply that to all there is or not .

To then address the reality of that within mindful experience as an individual or beyond that .

There seems to be so many crossed wires and contradictions because none of this is understood .

It's not understood in a way where there is only what you are to then declare I am not this or that .

To not understand that there is either a realness or a trueness to that, to then declare this or that is unreal or untrue or whatever world suits .


x daz x
But then, people will actually know thyself, instead of subjectively fantasizing/imagining inside their heads/minds. Perhaps these people think they will not like what they find and learn about themselves, and a false imaginary sense of bliss and silence is better than nothing, even if it is contradictory to truth/what is.
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  #193  
Old 24-12-2020, 02:42 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
Consciousness and you knowing consciousness are still thoughts and beliefs you have in your mind. Your mind that supposedly is not your true nature. This line of imaginary thinking in the mind, creates a problem where none exists, ignores and dismissed the true problem, which is the false and misleading contents you have in your mind, and creates excuses for arrogance, hypocracy and contradictions to support them.

The mind is not the problem, the problem is false and misleading contents of a person's mind/conditioning.

How do you know for a fact that (your) consciousness will shine, when you die, when you are not dead yet?

P.S From whom is the quote from you put in blue?

https://youtu.be/XZbVLvT7qBU?t=205

Thoughts and beliefs about one's nature are of the mind. Actually "knowing" one's nature is beyond mind. If one doesn't believe it one doesn't seek it and one remains bound by the mind. Empty your cup. https://youtu.be/mbk_BX_noXQ

The quote is from the Kena Upanishad.
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  #194  
Old 24-12-2020, 10:21 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
https://youtu.be/XZbVLvT7qBU?t=205

Thoughts and beliefs about one's nature are of the mind. Actually "knowing" one's nature is beyond mind. If one doesn't believe it one doesn't seek it and one remains bound by the mind. Empty your cup. https://youtu.be/mbk_BX_noXQ

The quote is from the Kena Upanishad.
"Knowing" that is based on false and misleading concepts/contents of mind is not really knowing, it's the opposite of knowing, and it is arrogance disguised as knowing .

Knowing is what the mind does, Knowing anything is also contents of the mind, 'cause who knows anything? I know lol, and according to you, I, ego and body are not your true nature.
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  #195  
Old 25-12-2020, 10:36 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
"Knowing" that is based on false and misleading concepts/contents of mind is not really knowing, it's the opposite of knowing, and it is arrogance disguised as knowing .

Knowing is what the mind does, Knowing anything is also contents of the mind, 'cause who knows anything? I know lol, and according to you, I, ego and body are not your true nature.

When I use "know/knowing" in quotes it's not knowing in an intellectual way. It's not the knowing of the mind. The mind knows I exist. The mind knows I'm conscious. The mind knows I'm happy or sad. The mind knows I'm this little self of flesh and blood.

It's the "knowing" of existence Itself, consciousness Itself, bliss Itself. That deep inner silence that's ever-present and unchanging, regardless of mind state. It's not something that's within these little selfs, but something (actually no thing) all these little selfs appear within.

You'll never "know" It by anything I post or anything you hear or read. That's just the finger pointing. Signposts. All of mind, however the only way beyond mind is through mind and you'll have to use mind to explore and dismiss all the "I" thoughts of identity, eventually getting beyond mind and left with nothing but that deep and Ineffable inner silence. That's what you are. That's what we all are.

The mind will interpret It in different ways depending on tradition and path, but It's all the same One. All the same Existence, Consciousness and Bliss. That being said one does need a tradition and its practices to point one in the right direction. To guide one along a path, otherwise one is left wandering through the forest and only seeing the trees.

Unchanging Consciousness https://youtu.be/NfvlrY2Nd3E

Perceptions, thoughts, and emotions arise in your mind as vrittis and become known to you, the eternal conscious being. To observe these changing vrittis, consciousness must necessarily be unchanging, and is therefore utterly unaffected by the vrittis it reveals -- like the sun is unaffected by all it shines upon.

Last edited by JustASimpleGuy : 25-12-2020 at 12:25 PM.
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  #196  
Old 25-12-2020, 01:39 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
When I use "know/knowing" in quotes it's not knowing in an intellectual way. It's not the knowing of the mind. The mind knows I exist. The mind knows I'm conscious. The mind knows I'm happy or sad. The mind knows I'm this little self of flesh and blood.

It's the "knowing" of existence Itself, consciousness Itself, bliss Itself. That deep inner silence that's ever-present and unchanging, regardless of mind state. It's not something that's within these little selfs, but something (actually no thing) all these little selfs appear within.

You'll never "know" It by anything I post or anything you hear or read. That's just the finger pointing. Signposts. All of mind, however the only way beyond mind is through mind and you'll have to use mind to explore and dismiss all the "I" thoughts of identity, eventually getting beyond mind and left with nothing but that deep and Ineffable inner silence. That's what you are. That's what we all are.

The mind will interpret It in different ways depending on tradition and path, but It's all the same One. All the same Existence, Consciousness and Bliss. That being said one does need a tradition and its practices to point one in the right direction. To guide one along a path, otherwise one is left wandering through the forest and only seeing the trees.

Unchanging Consciousness https://youtu.be/NfvlrY2Nd3E

Perceptions, thoughts, and emotions arise in your mind as vrittis and become known to you, the eternal conscious being. To observe these changing vrittis, consciousness must necessarily be unchanging, and is therefore utterly unaffected by the vrittis it reveals -- like the sun is unaffected by all it shines upon.
Knowing/"knowing" are both contents of the mind. You knowing something intellectually or not, is the individual Justasimpleguy I knowing that something.

"knowing", as you say is Justasimpleguy's mind pretending he knows about self, when self is a false and misleading concept/contents of Justasimpleguy's mind, self is a false and misleading concept/contents of mind, because self does not exist, only the Self exists in the physical material existence/reality as Atman and in the unseen, but not hidden non-material existence/reality as Brahman.

Self and what you call self are both Atman, Atman is the physical/material individual but not separate(d) part, aspect or extension of Brahman. Brahman created Atman so Brahman is conscious of itself and so Brahman expresses itself. How can something that is eternal and infinite be conscious of itself and express itself?-by being and becoming an individual non-eternal, but not separate(d) physical/material thing/existence.
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  #197  
Old 25-12-2020, 01:47 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
When I use "know/knowing" in quotes it's not knowing in an intellectual way. It's not the knowing of the mind. The mind knows I exist. The mind knows I'm conscious. The mind knows I'm happy or sad. The mind knows I'm this little self of flesh and blood.

It's the "knowing" of existence Itself, consciousness Itself, bliss Itself. That deep inner silence that's ever-present and unchanging, regardless of mind state. It's not something that's within these little selfs, but something (actually no thing) all these little selfs appear within.

You'll never "know" It by anything I post or anything you hear or read. That's just the finger pointing. Signposts. All of mind, however the only way beyond mind is through mind and you'll have to use mind to explore and dismiss all the "I" thoughts of identity, eventually getting beyond mind and left with nothing but that deep and Ineffable inner silence. That's what you are. That's what we all are.

The mind will interpret It in different ways depending on tradition and path, but It's all the same One. All the same Existence, Consciousness and Bliss. That being said one does need a tradition and its practices to point one in the right direction. To guide one along a path, otherwise one is left wandering through the forest and only seeing the trees.

Unchanging Consciousness https://youtu.be/NfvlrY2Nd3E

Perceptions, thoughts, and emotions arise in your mind as vrittis and become known to you, the eternal conscious being. To observe these changing vrittis, consciousness must necessarily be unchanging, and is therefore utterly unaffected by the vrittis it reveals -- like the sun is unaffected by all it shines upon.
It is best, more accurate and to the point to say, mind and its contents, ego, body etc are not all who I am, instead of saying the mind, body, ego etc are not my true nature. The mind, body, being conscious, ego etc are all the true natures of Atman, including Atman being born, through the birthing process, which Brahman created.
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  #198  
Old 25-12-2020, 02:52 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
It is best, more accurate and to the point to say, mind and its contents, ego, body etc are not all who I am, instead of saying the mind, body, ego etc are not my true nature. The mind, body, being conscious, ego etc are all the true natures of Atman, including Atman being born, through the birthing process, which Brahman created.

If you haven't I encourage you to watch the video and pay close attention to the words of Swami Tadatmananda. In fact you can find videos from any number of swamis on this and they will all say the same. It's not just words either. It's in your very own experience if you examine it close enough and using the technique of Vedantic meditation (self-inquiry through negation).

Why is it important to have a path and competent guide? Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. https://youtu.be/3sVv3dqlUjA?t=439 In other words empty your cup.
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  #199  
Old 25-12-2020, 09:49 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
If you haven't I encourage you to watch the video and pay close attention to the words of Swami Tadatmananda. In fact you can find videos from any number of swamis on this and they will all say the same. It's not just words either. It's in your very own experience if you examine it close enough and using the technique of Vedantic meditation (self-inquiry through negation).

Why is it important to have a path and competent guide? Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. https://youtu.be/3sVv3dqlUjA?t=439 In other words empty your cup.
Whom is this Swami you speak of? And whom is this Justasimpleguy's I/you, I am speaking to on this forum? This Swami is an individual Self whom has a mind. Just like justasimpleguy is an individual Self whom pretends, for whatever reason that he is not the individual Self. When Justasimpleguy has a silent/empty mind, Justasimplesguy's mind is still there, in the background, Justasimpleguy is just not using his mind at that moment.

Pointing to another individual whom has a mind, even if he/she is a guru, teacher, swami etc etc is not relevant and is fruitless. If the swami's mind, body and ego are not his true nature, then why should I or you listen to what he has to say, since it is his mind and body talking, not his true nature talking? Remember, you said in another post, that the individual Atman, mind and body can not be Brahman/our true nature This is yet another contradiction. There is one contradiction after another contradiction with you because you have conflicting contents of mind-beliefs, thoughts perceptions etc. This is the very definition of Cognitive Dissonance. People tend to seek consistency in their attitudes and perceptions, so this conflict/contradiction causes feelings of unease or discomfort.

Words/language create the contents of the mind, words/language create thoughts, beliefs, biases, think I know this or that or not are all contents in the mind.

And no, you can't go beyond your mind, when and because you are always inside your mind when you attach/relate your I (am) to something/someone, so what does your I know? Your I knows that you are conscious.
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  #200  
Old 29-12-2020, 10:42 AM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Connecting/communicating/uniting with your individual spirit/soul/Atman, thus Brahman, with an empty/still mind is going beyond mind.
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